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4E being immune to criticism (forked from Sentimentality And D&D...)
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<blockquote data-quote="Lonely Tylenol" data-source="post: 4551787" data-attributes="member: 18549"><p>Don't you talk trash about Lamarr!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>4e solved a lot of my problems with 3e, which for the most part focused around ease of use, especially at high level. There are many legitimate problems with both editions, and I consider myself to be a fairly impartial commentator, given my edition sluttery. I like both editions, a lot. I dislike 4e multiclassing, I'm impatient for a lot of 3e stuff to get converted, and I'm also of the opinion that so far they're only just scratching the surface of things that can be done with exception-based design, which frustrates me. I don't need to talk about what's wrong with 3e, because the Rules Forum archives are still there.</p><p></p><p>But I don't see a lot of serious criticisms of the edition, in the way that I saw a lot of serious criticisms of 3e while 3e was still the king of the hill. A lot of the criticisms amount to "I don't like this," which is legitimate, but not something you should expect anyone to take seriously. As I jokingly suggested, there seems to be a lot of resentment from these people that the edition happens to be something they don't like, not because it's not a good game or anything, but because it does things in a way they don't personally approve of. And this is presented as some kind of affront, rather than just a different design sensibility. They post like the changes to the game contain footnotes explaining how those changes were made to annoy them, personally, and come here to be upset about it. </p><p></p><p>Back in 2006, people were deconstructing 3e and fixing all the bits they didn't like. Criticism of the game, when not followed by "and that's why 1st ed/2nd ed/OD&D is better than 3e," was generally constructive...perhaps because fewer people willing to jump ship on 3e in favour of an older edition than seem to be doing just that with 4e. Now there seems to be far less constructive criticism and more griping. But I remember the same thing happening in 2000, and I expect that it will pass, especially as more new gamers start playing the new edition, which is also what happened after 2000.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, the standard setting in 4e leaves quite a bit to be desired ("No sir. I don't like it."). But that's not really what I'd call a major issue, considering that you can slap a campaign setting on it and your problems are solved. I've got ten different homebrew cosmologies I could use, and none of them were ever impacted by the Great Wheel, so I doubt they'll be impacted by the new standard cosmology.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lonely Tylenol, post: 4551787, member: 18549"] Don't you talk trash about Lamarr! 4e solved a lot of my problems with 3e, which for the most part focused around ease of use, especially at high level. There are many legitimate problems with both editions, and I consider myself to be a fairly impartial commentator, given my edition sluttery. I like both editions, a lot. I dislike 4e multiclassing, I'm impatient for a lot of 3e stuff to get converted, and I'm also of the opinion that so far they're only just scratching the surface of things that can be done with exception-based design, which frustrates me. I don't need to talk about what's wrong with 3e, because the Rules Forum archives are still there. But I don't see a lot of serious criticisms of the edition, in the way that I saw a lot of serious criticisms of 3e while 3e was still the king of the hill. A lot of the criticisms amount to "I don't like this," which is legitimate, but not something you should expect anyone to take seriously. As I jokingly suggested, there seems to be a lot of resentment from these people that the edition happens to be something they don't like, not because it's not a good game or anything, but because it does things in a way they don't personally approve of. And this is presented as some kind of affront, rather than just a different design sensibility. They post like the changes to the game contain footnotes explaining how those changes were made to annoy them, personally, and come here to be upset about it. Back in 2006, people were deconstructing 3e and fixing all the bits they didn't like. Criticism of the game, when not followed by "and that's why 1st ed/2nd ed/OD&D is better than 3e," was generally constructive...perhaps because fewer people willing to jump ship on 3e in favour of an older edition than seem to be doing just that with 4e. Now there seems to be far less constructive criticism and more griping. But I remember the same thing happening in 2000, and I expect that it will pass, especially as more new gamers start playing the new edition, which is also what happened after 2000. Yeah, the standard setting in 4e leaves quite a bit to be desired ("No sir. I don't like it."). But that's not really what I'd call a major issue, considering that you can slap a campaign setting on it and your problems are solved. I've got ten different homebrew cosmologies I could use, and none of them were ever impacted by the Great Wheel, so I doubt they'll be impacted by the new standard cosmology. [/QUOTE]
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