D&D 4E 4E boon or bust for Old School support?

[Reynard]

Certainly there's some anecdotal evidence that suggests this is happening. This similar to my case, actually, although it wasn't 4E that prompted me to make the switch to older editions -- it was a more gradual process, for me.

For my own part, I had been fighting 3.x since it came out, trying to make it play and feel like my D&D -- i.e. 1E, 2E and/or BECM D&D. It was 4E and the previews we've had so far hat made me finally realize that D&D wasn't my D&D any more. I spent a short period kicking and screaming about it -- and for that I apologize -- but finally came to accept that D&D was "leaving me behind" for the newer, faster, sexier model of gamer and decided to run 1E (I am still running 3.x, the MWP DragonLance modules, to be precise).

One nice thing about 1E being long out of print is that I feel free to house rule and modify it any way I choose, without the threat of my mods not working with whatever the new module/supplement is. There's things I like about 2E and 3E and I can implement versions of those elements. i can create things from whole cloth, too, and since 1E is "static" no new rules or whatever are coming to undermine what I want to build.

Plus, it is kind of fun to try and dig up stuff I don't own, from ebay or game stores with lots of OoP products or just hittinga flea market and finding a box of modules.

But it would be nice to have some new modules, to see some commercial support for what I consider to be the best, most fun version of D&D out there.

 

[RFisher]

I mean, if your a publisher and have to put your efforts somewhere it seems more logical to go for the one that will reward you with greater profits.

If you're publishing 1e compatible stuff--whether OSRIC or not--you aren't primarily motivated by profit.

That is, your motivation for publishing 1e stuff isn't primarily profit motivated. Other things you publish might be more motivated by profit. But if someone is publishing 1e stuff today, I don't see that 4e really changes things for the 1e part of your business.

Although, you could say this really applies to the whole RPG industry except perhaps for less-than-a-handfull of big players. But it applies even more to publishing 1e compatible stuff.

Another thought, publishers wanting a crack at a 4E license may not want to antagonize the lion WOTC by supporting the AD&D market. Without WOTCs blessing they might find it not worth the risk.

Having observed Wizards for seven+ years now, I have zero reason to suspect that supporting AD&D would antagonize them.

 

[Henry]

Goodman, Troll Lord, Kenzer, Goodman, Troll Lord, Kenzer -- Lord, does Expeditious Retreat Press not get any lovin' from the old guard?

They've (Joe and Suzi) been producing 1E-compatible stuff through OSRIC for (I think) almost a year now, and the most recent one was in July. Unless they've had a press release I don't know about, they still intend to do 1E-compatible stuff, and may be the most dedicated publishers I've seen about it so far.

 

[SavageRobby]

C&C's core players are really the guys wanting a game like 3E but not as complicated. They also have a respect for D&Ds past (thats why they have Gygax). But there really not focused on 1E.

Hogwash. What on earth would make you make a sweeping generalization like that?


I'm a C&C guy (along with Savage Worlds) and I don't want a game like 3E at all. I want a game like 1E, with some of the cludginess cleaned up. I want a game like 1E that is slightly easier to houserule w/out finding funky balance issues. I want a game like 1E that uses some more modern mechanics. I want a game like 1E that makes 3E stuff easier to convert.

Most of the C&C folks I know are far more on the 1E/2E side of the fence than the 3E side. They don't mind stealing good ideas from 3E (there are a few, actually), but with possibly one exception, I wouldn't call them 3E guys at all.

 

[SavageRobby]

Goodman, Troll Lord, Kenzer, Goodman, Troll Lord, Kenzer -- Lord, does Expeditious Retreat Press not get any lovin' from the old guard?

They've (Joe and Suzi) been producing 1E-compatible stuff through OSRIC for (I think) almost a year now, and the most recent one was in July. Unless they've had a press release I don't know about, they still intend to do 1E-compatible stuff, and may be the most dedicated publishers I've seen about it so far.

I keep looking at their modules. I've heard great things about Pod Caverns.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

Goodman, Troll Lord, Kenzer, Goodman, Troll Lord, Kenzer -- Lord, does Expeditious Retreat Press not get any lovin' from the old guard?

They do from me; I've purchased print versions of all their Advanced Adventures (and been pleased with them).

 

[Valiant]

Hogwash. What on earth would make you make a sweeping generalization like that?


I'm a C&C guy (along with Savage Worlds) and I don't want a game like 3E at all. I want a game like 1E, with some of the cludginess cleaned up. .

Most of the C&C folks I know are far more on the 1E/2E side of the fence than the 3E side. They don't mind stealing good ideas from 3E (there are a few, actually), but with possibly one exception, I wouldn't call them 3E guys at all.

I think the "cludginess" is a big part of what makes AD&D AD&D.
The hard core 1Eers that I've spoken to (who have purchased alot of C&C stuff) don't think its on par with Joe B's EXPR stuff. It can be converted, but it doesn't have the look or feel of the originals. There art suggest anything but 70s early 80s.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

Adventure Games Publishing's XXXI is a C&C product that has a definite old-school vibe/approach, IMO. Of course, it's a Wilderlands product, too, so it has the Judges Guild thing happening.

 

[Valiant]

I'll have to check that one out then, I liked JG modules.

Something thats always buged me about C&C is that most of those advocating it online claim its been designed primarily to attract old 1E players and "old schoolers", yet there presentation is very 3Eish/D20.
Typically publishers put on the cover artwork that will appeal to their primary audiance. Goodman Games, PPP, EXPR all do this with their "old school" lines, yet, C&C sticks with the more modern (though a bit toned down) "WOTC 3E look", inside and out. Now thats odd if 1Eers are their primary target, infact its telling as to who they are really aiming for.

 

[mcrow]

I think in the begining (When 4e comes out) we may see a slight decline in old school stuff coming out from those companies that plan to publish 4e stuff. Not because they don't want to publisher old school stuff or that they are going to quit publishing it, but because they will need to focus on getting their foot in the 4E door since that's where the money is.