D&D 4E 4E Class Survivor - Round 6

[drothgery]

PS. Is there a way to make real table or at least not loose extra space between words?

You can use the {code} tag {/code} (replacing the {braces} with [brackets]), to switch to a fixed-width font and preserve whitespace, like so...

column 1      column 2
value 1       value 2

 

[Nahat Anoj]

I don't like the V-shaped classes, but for some reason this round the barbarian annoyed me.

As far as invoker goes, people like Gandalf, Buddha, and Moses remind me of various builds of invokers.

Iconic wardens might be Beorn, Treebeard, the Green Knight, the Sasquatch(!), or the various Green Man representations of pagan Europe. In addition, I feel the ranger from AD&D 1e-2e has more in common with the warden than with the current incarnation of the ranger.

 

[Garthanos]

I wish I could vote to defend the warden!

I really like the guy. I know he's going to get kicked out, but, well, its a richly thematic class that's mechanically sound. The only failure I think it demonstrates is one of communication- I don't think the warden writeup really gets the idea across. I think an iconic character or a piece of short fiction would really help.

Seriously, while I know its too late to save the warden, those who voted against it should open up the character builder and throw together a goliath earthstrength warden with stone themed powers, or an elven wildblood warden with an animalistic theme. It really works.

Thank You

 

[Garthanos]

Two things will keep you alive, in my eyes.

1. A strong flavor. Wardens, Warlocks, and Invokers have this going for them, so they win out despite being "the new kids". I don't care what any of the above say, these guys have a grim sense of style and totally float my boat.
2. Stable, balanced mechanics. Fighters, Rogues, and Avengers are dry as toast, but their rock-solid sense of class and interesting mechanics moves them up.

Therefore, I nominate the Ranger. Dear god, the Ranger. I hate to admit this, seeing as I loved the concept of them becoming Martial initially, but taking the Primal out of them has really turned them generic and bland. Twin Strike (for its pushing aside every other at-will) and Hunter's Quarry (for being a bad rip-off of Warlock's Curse and Oath of Enmity before OoE was even made) seal their fate mechanically. The only thing saving them is their broken damage numbers? All the more reason to drop them.

Also, see what I did there? I gave reasons why I hate them, not just "omg drop warlock its dumb". Come on, guys, even if you have to copy and paste from previous threads, don't clutter the discussion with one-sentence posts.

QFT
Awesome thinking mind if I also argue in favor of classes people don't seem to grok... ;-)

I picture the Archer Ranger as robinhood and william tell and legalos and several chinese guys all wrapped in to one... I have special balanced arrows of twice/thrice the price for doing trick shots with (twin strike only one arrow skewering two enemies or cutting through one knocking something on the others head etc).

The ranger is mechanically bland I certainly grant that... but that one at-will can do so many different things if I skin it right.

 

[Nai_Calus]

Save the Swordmage!

(All four of the classes I'd actually want to play concept-wise are gonna go early, I can tell already. Two are gone already, Warlock's on its way out it seems, and Swordmage will go because people apparently just can't stand classes that aren't lame. )

 

[Destil]

Paladin, I'm afraid. They're good, but no class needs THREE marking mechanics (Divine Challenge, Divine Sanction, Mark on powers like Arcing Smite). Add to that the Secondary Wis Primary Cha issue. I have no problem with classes that have two primary scores and wish wizards would do a few more, but such classes should NEVER share a defense on one and the secondary (looking at the Cleric here, too).

And on top of that their primary mark gets fiddly and can screw the player over too easily. Stunned and the monster moved away? No divine challenge, and none next round either.

 

[relmskye]

Away with you, Ranger! You're too boring to live! If I wanted to do damage, I'd play a rogue, who's made of purest fun.

 

[Nai_Calus]

Paladin, I'm afraid. They're good, but no class needs THREE marking mechanics (Divine Challenge, Divine Sanction, Mark on powers like Arcing Smite). Add to that the Secondary Wis Primary Cha issue. I have no problem with classes that have two primary scores and wish wizards would do a few more, but such classes should NEVER share a defense on one and the secondary (looking at the Cleric here, too).

And on top of that their primary mark gets fiddly and can screw the player over too easily. Stunned and the monster moved away? No divine challenge, and none next round either.

Don't forget Prescient Bard, which commits this sin as well. (No, really, it's a frakkin' archery build, WHY isn't it DEX secondary?)

 

[Herschel]

Why is Charisma and attack stat for ANYTHING? The arrow likes me so it's more likely to hit what I want it to?

 

[Dire Human]

Why is Charisma and attack stat for ANYTHING? The arrow likes me so it's more likely to hit what I want it to?

Don't think about my Infernal Warlock's "Melee Training: Constitution" too hard, then.

And I'll throw in my disappointment with the Prescient Bard. Cool idea (an archer that sees a flash of the future, knowing just where to strike!), worst possible execution (...wait, the archer's a Bard?). Let's just hope that anything in the PHB3 that uses a bow won't be so forced.