D&D 4E [4e] Con-based Warlock Help!

[WillPhillips]

Hi all,

I apologize that this is going to be on the brief and possible uninformative end of things, but that's never stopped me from trying to get answers before! I'll be sure to post his current build tomorrow. So here's my general problem:

The party just leveled up to 8 this week and is composed as follows:

1. Dwarf Con/Int Starlock (myself)
2. Dwarf Warden, MC Barbarian
3. Dragonborn Paladin
4. Eladrin Wizard, MC Swordmage

At this point, I'm really struggling to become an effective part of the party in combat. I like the character concept too much to abandon it, so that's why I've come begging for some help.

Most fights, the Paladin can drop a massive daily attack which can do between 45-60 damage. The wizard can follow up with a Fireball AOE spell that's really nasty - along with his controller spells, too.

I find myself in a lurch as I'm not doing major DPS (and yeah, I now know warlocks are a joke of a striker that I've read the forums a lot), and my controller-esque status effects mostly involve pushing the targets - something that goes against our tactics as we get the pally and fighter locking the enemies down. Our battles generally revolve around the pally and warden marking enemies, getting whooped and dealing some whoopings, and then the warlock and wiz attacking from far. As a result, I feel outshined in everything I do and I'm not fufilling a distinct role tactically - the pally drops better damage, and even the wizard can get a one-up on me not to mention his control spells.

So, what are my options here?

Hybrids are out, as per DM fiat, by the way. However, I can go ahead and rebuild the character as much as possible, but at this point, I'm sticking with the Warlock route, but am open to either of the three Con builds.

Help! Please! I don't want to have to bring in my cheesed out half-orc storm sorc!

 

[keterys]

Warlocks can do an awful lot of damage with hellish rebuke and dire radiance if they can get the kicker to trigger. Armor of Agathys and Hunger of Hadar can do plenty of damage as dailies. Can you give more information as to what the problems you're encountering are?

There are some solid close options for hitting multiple targets for the encounter powers. Warlocks are plenty good when compared to wizards and paladins and wardens. It's in comparison to rangers, rogues, barbarians, and sorcerers that they begin to pale.

 

[Dan'L]

Hmmm....

You could try to do a build that fills in with more of a leader secondary role instead of controller. Since your party doesn't have a primary leader, you and the Paladin together could make up for that lack.

Look at the Vestige Pact from Arcane Power. Focus on powers that buff or help out your allies. Rely on the Vestige of King Elidyr for your at-will (give chances for extra saves, & boost an ally's defenses w/ pact boon.) Additionally, consider:

Daily 1: Vestige of Khaeleth (gain extra damage from allies/grant temp HP to allies/reduce damage to allies)
Encounter 3: Cloud of Flies (cause enemy to grant CA)
Daily 5: Venemous Webs (cause enemy to grant CA)
Encounter 7: Hero's Arrow (restore HP to allies)

If you want a familiar, take a look at the Serpent (remove enemies ability to make OAs for a round)

Of course, if you mean by being "an effective part of the party" that you increase your personal DPS, then this isn't the route for you. But if you consider the damage done by your allies, because you made it easier for them to deal it, as partly your damage too, then you can realize a measure of effectiveness and a more tactically distinct role in this particular party.

-Dan'L

 

[Nifft]

Are you allowed to use stuff from Dragon Magazine?

What monster source does your DM seem to use? (This is a meta-game question, but it determines which defense is best to hit. MM1 had too many high-Fort/low-Will monsters, while MM2 has a much more even spread. If your DM runs WotC modules, I think the high-Fort critters are even more pervasive, so your best option may be to go for the Vestige Pact. However, if he's using MM2 critters, any Pact should work well.)

What magic items do you have / do you have access to?

Which powers do you have now, and which do you like best?

I'm guessing you used the standard point buy.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Kzach]

As a quick reply, I'd hold out on the star-lock front since you're already 8th-level and Student of Caiphon is only three levels away. 18-20 crit range for all radiant power attacks will definitely see a boost in your damage

I'll reply later with whatever I come up with after looking through the options.

 

[Kzach]

Dwarf, Warlock
Build: Scourge Warlock
Eldritch Blast: Eldritch Blast Constitution
Eldritch Pact: Star Pact
Background: Arcane Student Who Saw Too Much (Arcane Student Who Saw Too Much Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 22, Dex 13, Int 15, Wis 12, Cha 8.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 18, Dex 13, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 8.


AC: 20 Fort: 22 Reflex: 19 Will: 18
HP: 69 Surges: 12 Surge Value: 17

TRAINED SKILLS
Religion +11, Insight +10, Arcana +13, History +11, Stealth +10

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +5, Bluff +3, Diplomacy +3, Dungeoneering +7, Endurance +12, Heal +5, Intimidate +3, Nature +5, Perception +5, Streetwise +3, Thievery +5, Athletics +4

FEATS
Level 1: Shadow Initiate
Level 2: Ulban's Flare
Level 4: Rune-Scribed Soul
Level 6: Empowering Shadows
Level 8: Dual Implement Spellcaster

POWERS
Warlock encounter 1: Life Bind
Warlock daily 1: Flames of Phlegethos
Warlock utility 2: Ethereal Stride
Warlock encounter 3: Frigid Darkness
Warlock daily 5: Tyrannical Threat
Warlock utility 6: Insightful Warning
Warlock encounter 7: Howl of Doom

ITEMS
Runic Leather Armor +2, Bloodcurse Rod +2, Rod of Corruption +2, Amulet of Physical Resolve +2

The above is what I'd go with and I'll explain why.

Wielding two rods is a no-brainer. With the Rod of Corruption, the aim is to get your curse out early, and spread it to everything on the battlefield. Sometimes this is easy, curse a minion in the middle of everything, kill it, and whammo you have everything cursed. Other times it's harder, just maximise your curse potential as best you can.

But always use the bloodcurse rod as your primary attack implement. Remember that you get the benefit of the rod of corruption just by having it in your other hand. Now you're getting your awesome pact boon twice as often.

You should always be using your pact boon to boost your chance to hit. And if you get your curse out early and spread it around, you should be getting at least a +1 every turn. This is awesome and is the reason why you can concentrate on feats that boost damage rather than boosting your attack rolls.

With duel-implement caster, your bonus to damage is +6 for Con and +4 for two +2 implements. That's a total of +10 damage to every damage roll you make. With your Dire Radiance power, Ulban's Flare increases your damage by 2 and penalises the target with a -2 to it's attack rolls. The defenders in your melee-centric party will thank you for that. In addition, Empowering Shadows is another +1 damage. So now you're doing 1d6+13 damage plus warlock's curse 1d6 damage to a target, and giving them a -2 to attack.

Now the above two benefits rely on having concealment, but that's something you really should have every round anyway, barring being prevented from moving by effects. To counter this, I gave the background benefit that gives you a +1 bonus to saving throws against any effect that restrains you, immobilises, dazes or stuns. Plus a magical item that gives a further +2 to those saves. So you should be running around the battlefield positioning for your Prime Shot and getting concealment without hindrance most of the battle.

Now, as a dwarf you get one of the most awesome racial benefits in the game, which is second wind as a minor action. To benefit from that, I gave you Runed Scribe Soul and Runic Leather Armour. Now, even if you don't NEED to use a second wind, at least once per encounter you can burn your second wind as a minor action and get a +1 bonus to hit with all attacks and a +8 bonus to all damage rolls before the end of your turn. This is the time to spend an action point

Oh, +2 of that bonus damage lasts until the end of your next turn as well, so make sure to use it

In addition to all of this, you've also got Shadow Initiate. This is an awesome multi-class feat for the warlock. Free Stealth training which is fantastic to use in combat for hiding around corners and sniping with combat advantage, but you also get the Assassin's Shroud power twice per encounter. The bonus dice have to be used by the end of your next turn, but as a free action and burst 10 area, just put them both on a target and invoke for an extra 2d6 damage per encounter before they run out.

As for powers, most of the Starlock's choices do kinda suck. Always go with Con though, even if you don't get a benefit from the Star Pact. I chose Con-based powers with fear or radiant in them as much as I could. When you hit 11th-level, take the Student of Caiphon paragon path and then you'll be critting with an 18, 19 and 20 on all powers with the fear or radiant keyword. This alone will see your damage output increased by a massive amount.

Oh, and as another tactic, try and combine Flames of Phlegathos with Life Bind to hopefully extend the ongoing damage to another round. And if you want to get major cursage out early, burn Tyrannical Threat.

Your nova should be done when you have a huge bonus from Star Pact Boon and on the round after placing a shroud on a target. Start by shrouding the target a second time as a free action. Then burn Second Wind for the big damage bonus and a +1 to all your attacks until the end of your turn. Invoke your shrounds. Burn an action point to use your Star Pact boon bonus to hopefully hit with Flames of Phlegathos. That's 3d10+18 fire damage and 5 ongoing fire damage (save ends). Then use Life Bind for 2d8+18 necrotic damage and a -2 penalty to his save against the ongoing damage.

That's a total of 2d6 (shrouds) plus 1d6 (curse) plus 3d10 plus 2d8 plus 36 points of damage in one turn. That averages to 72 points of damage, with a minimum of 44 and a max of 100 points of damage (non-crit). And that's non-crit and not including the ongoing damage which he'll suffer at least once before attempting a save (with a -2).

Oh, and I just remembered another tactic. Given your Dire Radiance is pretty awesome, try and piss off the lurkers and skirmishers to come after you and thus invoke the conditional damage from the attack. With curse damage on the target, that's a potential of 3d6+26 points of damage per turn.

And another edit Once you get into paragon, the damage really starts piling up. You can get Twofold Curse to get the infernal pact to gain access to the infernal feats and power bonuses, but I'm not sure if that's a wasted feat or not given that there are loads of radiant+fear feats you'll want to get to empower your casting.

 

[Mentat55]

Of the three Con-based pacts, the infernal pact seems to do the most raw damage, especially if you go for the biggest powers.

The vestige pact is an interesting option, because at level 1 and level 5 there are vestiges that allow your pact at-will to do an additional 1d6 thunder and 1d8 psychic damage, respectively, so if you use your daily early in a battle (which you should with vestiges, to gain their eyes of the vestige augment and the pact boon benefits), you can add significant damage -- it might not just seem as big as a huge daily, but your total output will be the same.

The star pact is my favorite because of the idea of it, but seems to suffer a bit in practice. Student of Caiphon is a pretty rad PP, though, and will make you a lot more dangerous. One thing you could consider is to go Con/Cha with the starlock, to open up a lot more power choices (including the nastiest dark pact attacks), dump Int, and get Str to 13 to take chainmail proficiency. Then you will have a good AC, Fort, and Will. Focus on powers that have good kickers that don't depend on the Int bonus.

 

[Kzach]

The vestige pact is an interesting option, because at level 1 and level 5 there are vestiges that allow your pact at-will to do an additional 1d6 thunder and 1d8 psychic damage, respectively, so if you use your daily early in a battle (which you should with vestiges, to gain their eyes of the vestige augment and the pact boon benefits), you can add significant damage -- it might not just seem as big as a huge daily, but your total output will be the same.

Ooh, with Vestige Adept, you can extend that to the next encounter too! I like it.

Here's another version of the above character but using Vestige Pact until 11th and Twofold Pact to get into the Student of Caiphon PP.

Dwarf, Warlock, Student of Caiphon
Build: Scourge Warlock
Eldritch Blast: Eldritch Blast Constitution
Eldritch Pact: Vestige Pact
Twofold Pact: Star Pact
Background: Arcane Student Who Saw Too Much (Arcane Student Who Saw Too Much Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 11, Con 23, Dex 14, Int 16, Wis 13, Cha 9.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 18, Dex 13, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 8.


AC: 23 Fort: 25 Reflex: 23 Will: 21
HP: 90 Surges: 12 Surge Value: 22

TRAINED SKILLS
Insight +12, Religion +14, Arcana +16, History +14, Stealth +13

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +8, Bluff +5, Diplomacy +5, Dungeoneering +9, Endurance +14, Heal +7, Intimidate +5, Nature +7, Perception +7, Streetwise +5, Thievery +8, Athletics +6

FEATS
Level 1: Vestige Adept
Level 2: Shadow Initiate
Level 4: Rune-Scribed Soul
Level 6: Empowering Shadows
Level 8: Dual Implement Spellcaster
Level 10: Diminishing Spirit Curse
Level 11: Twofold Pact
Level 12: Ulban's Flare

POWERS
Warlock encounter 1: Life Bind
Warlock daily 1: Vestige of Mount Vaelis
Warlock utility 2: Ethereal Stride
Warlock encounter 3: Frigid Darkness
Warlock daily 5: Vestige of Xandor
Warlock utility 6: Insightful Warning
Warlock encounter 7: Howl of Doom
Warlock daily 9: Iron Spike of Dis
Warlock utility 10: Curse of Nessus

ITEMS
Rod of Corruption +3, Bloodcurse Rod +3, Runic Leather Armor +2, Amulet of Physical Resolve +3

At 8th-level with the Vestige of Mount Vaelis active, your Eyes of the Vestige power can do 3d6+15 damage per turn (assuming the vulnerability is up). Nice!

And this opens up Diminishing Spirit Curse which is a simply AWESOME feat when you have ongoing effects like that of Vestige of Xandor.

Having said that, I think I'd go with my original build based on star-pact. Primarily because once you get Student of Caiphon, all the Vestige pact powers become obsolete, and given that you're limited to retraining powers once per level, you'll be stuck with non-fear/non-radiant powers already chosen. And once you get Student of Caiphon, you can begin stacking all those awesome radiant feats.

A nice combo is also getting a familiar with the extra familiar feat (Khyber) to put even more ongoing damage plus radiant vulnerability stacking on multiple opponents. It starts getting really nasty

 

[Markn]

Once you reach 11th level I would strongly encourage looking at the Master of Starry Sky PP. I play a half elf starlock who has dual pact with the Dark Pact and this combo is pretty effective. The PP that I have mentioned makes you a hitting machine. I use a quickcurse rod and a vicious rod. By the second round, I could have a +10 bonuse to hit on top of normal to hits plusses just by cursing 3 people in the first round, 2 more in the second and then stripping the curse off with the PP power. Don't underestimate the ability to hit round after round, or the power of hitting when you REALLY need it.

 

[Nifft]

I love the Vestage Warlock, but IMHO the Infernal has the best paragon paths for Con-based builds. So I'd take either Vestige or Infernal, then use Twofold Pact at 11th level to get the other, and go into either Hellbringer or Life-Stealer.

Cheers, -- N