4e D&D GSL Live

[2WS-Steve]

The funny thing is that there's actually less reason for WotC to keep demons, devils, Tarrasques, Yuan ti and such out of the SRD this time around.

Nothing released under the 4e SRD is open content. At any time they can simply revoke an individual license or an entire product line, so they can always pull it back later. They retain complete control over all this material -- they're just letting others play with it a little.

 

[2WS-Steve]

The SRD seems to suggest that if you make some sort of mechanical change, you can print the stat block.

Yah -- but I'm concerned they just mean the numerical part of the stat block -- so attack bonuses or changes to hit points.

After all, if I can print the whole stat block by bumping the hit points by one, then why not allow printing the whole stat block to begin with?

 

[Brown Jenkin]

What WotC Can Do: Anything they want to do, whenever they want to do it. And it's YOUR responsibility to keep informed of what they're doing to you.

What they have granted you the right do: What you can already do for free. They have essentially forbade you from copying anything copyrightable or trademarkable. Whoop de doo.

Sounds like the only benefit is the logo. If you are willing to live without the logo then why not follow copyright law and release compatible stuff without it. It sounds alot safer leagally and ecconomicly (no destroying materials or worrying about past product lines).

 

[shinmizu]

I can't imagine Wizards getting a bee up their ass every time someone creates a monster and posts it on the internet. That would be HUGE trouble on their part to stop anyone from posting anything they made with 4e on the internet.

Not only would the Bad PR turn so many people away, but it'd be a legal death of a thousand cuts.

That didn't stop TSR. However, I'd like to hope that history doesn't repeat itself.

 

[Terramotus]

Other than the missing demons and devils, there is nothing in the GSL that we hadn't heard about before or were expecting (at least the big stuff, I guess the lack of full stat blocks for MM monsters is kind of surprising) so I'm not sure why some of us are acting so surprised.

I dunno. This is pretty bad. While it doesn't explicitly state that the only thing you're allowed to build is modules, this line is the key:

Licensee will not define, redefine, or alter the definition of any 4E Reference in a Licensed Product.

And it's not well defined. Certainly any type of house rule seems prohibited, so Stalker0 is technically not allowed to distribute his wonderful solution to the horribly broken Skill Challenge system.

But it also looks like this line kills any sort of campaign setting uniqueness. I don't want Star Pact Warlocks in the campaign? Too bad, that's altering the definition of Warlock. Healing magic is weaker, so all healing does -1 point? Not allowed. I want Raise Dead to be more difficult, and not available until higher levels, or to not have any cost, but rather a quest component? Not allowed. Want Eladrin to lose their teleportation ability in exchange for something else because the Feywild was destroyed in that campaign world? Not allowed.

You know, in retrospect, maybe it's a good thing there's not much fluff in the books, particularly the Monster Manual, because I don't think the GSL allows deviation from even that.

Plus, there's the fact that if WotC produces anything with the same name as a new class or feat you've created, you potentially have to stop sales of your product and choose a different name, reprinting the books, in hopes that the new one doesn't get yoinked. Great.

So, in short, it looks like the GSL=Modules Only. That's extremely annoying.

 

[Rechan]

That didn't stop TSR. However, I'd like to hope that history doesn't repeat itself.

TSR crumbled before the Internet really took off. Also, information travels much faster now, and the internet gaming community is far more tight knit.

All it would take is a few dozen determined ex-fans to just continually post stuff anonymously to really tie the legal department in knots.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

You know, in retrospect, maybe it's a good thing there's not much fluff in the books, particularly the Monster Manual, because I don't think the GSL allows deviation from even that.

I'm looking at it and I wonder if they specifically created it to drive 3rd parties away. Because what I'm seeing are things that would make more than a few people say their license isn't worth it and pass it up.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

TSR crumbled before the Internet really took off. Also, information travels much faster now, and the internet gaming community is far more tight knit.

All it would take is a few dozen determined ex-fans to just continually post stuff anonymously to really tie the legal department in knots.

And the bad press of the attempt would create far too much ill will in exactly the people they count on buying their product.

 

[Rechan]

I'm looking at it and I wonder if they specifically created it to drive 3rd parties away. Because what I'm seeing are things that would make more than a few people say their license isn't worth it and pass it up.

I don't think that's likely. Yes, WotC got burned by the Castles and Crusades/Conan/M&M/Trued20 that popped up. However, WotC would benefit greatly from 3rd party companies making complimentary products (campaign settings, adventures, etc), because anyone who wants to Make or Play them has to have the Core Books. WotC would sell more books that way.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Yah -- but I'm concerned they just mean the numerical part of the stat block -- so attack bonuses or changes to hit points.

Right. If you change the Orc Berserker's weapon, you can say that he has the melee attack Falchion, and that it is +6, 1d8+4, and that he has the power Warrior's Surge... but you still can't say what Warrior's Surge does. If all you've changed is the weapon, you probably can't list the Orc Berserker's Intelligence or his Speed, since those can be found in the D&D 4E Monster Manual.

What I'm also not sure about:
... you can add functions to 4E References as long as, in doing so, you don’t redefine that 4E Reference.

So you can certainly add the Battleaxe attack to the Orc Berserker, but I don't know if you can take away the Greataxe attack, since that would involve redefining the 4E Reference...

-Hyp.