D&D 4E 4E Essentials Modern

[dirklancer]

I know there was talk of this back when 4E was released, but aside from independent projects like Ultramodern4 I haven't really heard anything official for a while. So after looking through Essentials, I had some ideas for a 4E modern that is based on the old d20 version. So my friend and I were starting a project and I wanted to know if anyone here would like to help. We were trying to come up with the basics for an Essentials Modern, and here is what we have so far as the basics:
-6 basic classes based on the primary attributes, just like the old edition. Each basic class would serve as the foundation for the character, providing things like at-wills and basic abilities.
-Careers (or Occupations) which are what define the actual character and make them unique. These would be handled much like how schools of magic or domains were handled in Essentials. Most of the character's powers and abilities would come from these careers, and the careers could be as specific or vague as needed. Obvious ones would be things like Soldier, Martial Artist, Spy, Investigative, Academic, Scientist, Medic, etc. Each career would also provide its own Paragon abilities, but there would still be separate Epic options.
-Careers would be tied to a specific ability and would technically be linked to a specific class, but a character could have any career. By using a feat like Melee Training, you could have a Charismatic Soldier, etc. I think this might add a little versatility to the character creation process, and there could be things like multi-class feats to allow characters access to other class or career abilities.

Those are the basic ideas so far. I wanted to see if people think this is a good direction for the project, and I would welcome ideas, thoughts, and help with this project if we decide to go through with it.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I know there was talk of this back when 4E was released, but aside from independent projects like Ultramodern4 I haven't really heard anything official for a while. So after looking through Essentials, I had some ideas for a 4E modern that is based on the old d20 version. So my friend and I were starting a project and I wanted to know if anyone here would like to help. We were trying to come up with the basics for an Essentials Modern, and here is what we have so far as the basics:
-6 basic classes based on the primary attributes, just like the old edition. Each basic class would serve as the foundation for the character, providing things like at-wills and basic abilities.

What sort of at-wills? I'd like to see Inspiration as an at-will, for instance.

Careers (or Occupations) which are what define the actual character and make them unique. These would be handled much like how schools of magic or domains were handled in Essentials. Most of the character's powers and abilities would come from these careers, and the careers could be as specific or vague as needed.

Seems like careers are more like advanced classes than occupations then.

Obvious ones would be things like Soldier, Martial Artist, Spy, Investigative, Academic, Scientist, Medic, etc. Each career would also provide its own Paragon abilities, but there would still be separate Epic options.

Okay so far. Especially the Academic idea. I think skills-based classes that actually do something when the GM is unfamiliar with the real-life skill in question would be awesome.

-Careers would be tied to a specific ability

Now I don't know how much I like this idea. Imaging picking an ability score for the Martial Artist. Do you go Strength or Dex? No matter what, you tick off half the people who want to play the class. At least d20 Modern had Weapon Finesse. Same with the Soldier... the way it was written, while it was generally used with ranged weapons (the setting, plus how ranged weapons didn't get benefits the way melee weapons did) it could be used for melee weapons or even martial arts. And if someone wanted to be special forces, that split between Strength (rifle-butting) and Dex (shooting) and either (knife-artist... which do you use?) would still come up.

and would technically be linked to a specific class

Multi-classing works differently between Modern and DnD 4e, so this would depend on how exactly you handle multi-classing. For instance, to use the Martial Artist and Soldier examples above, if you wanted to play a Martial Artist (or Swashbuckler for that matter), a combination of Strong and Fast gave you an optimal and flavorful combination. (Especially since you could use Increased Speed with Flying Kick!) Toss in a bit of Charismatic if you like for a swashbuckler. For the soldier, what if someone wants to be a military officer? There's going to be a lot of stat splitting going on, and abilities based on Strength, Dex, Int and Cha!

I guess I'm saying, your ideas look a bit more restrictive than the way Modern handled things. Modern handled some things like martial artists and military officers better than 3.x precisely because it was so flexible. (Of course, the flexibility allowed you to make a completely gimped character.)

 

[deadsmurf]

I think if you want to build a 4E-like modern game, the mechanics to look at are D&D Gamma world, not essentials.

For example, I don't think 30 levels of play are appropriate for a modern game, but 10 sounds perfect to me.
Also, the abstraction of weapons in gamma world is a great idea when there are way too many modern weapons than you could possibly detail. But "heavy two-handed melee weapon" or "Light one handed-gun" works very well - the ammunition rules probably are not appropriate for a non post-apocalyptic game though (though perhaps for some genres)
I also like the two mutation model that is used in GW, but would likely be better used in modern as a stat-class/occupation model. The stat-class (ie Charismatic hero) gives an 18 in the appropriate stat, and an encounter power - giving you choice among 3 or 4 - like Flashing Smile (+5 to interactions), Flourish (add cha to damage of attack) etc
Your occupation class gives you more powers, where the modifying basic attack model of essentials would work very well.

I think eliminating AC as a stat might be a good idea for the game too - different weapons attack different defenses, guns attack reflex, a heavy weapon attacks fort etc.

 

[Kelvor Ravenstar]

I was having very similar thoughts earlier this week, but with Star Wars in mind rather than D20 Modern.
10 levels of play might be too few, but I definitely think 30 is too much for Star Wars. My thoughts were along how would I make 4e style classes or builds out of the ones from Star Wars Saga Edition. I'd want to do Jedi as three builds, one a melee defender (using an Essentials-style Defender Aura), one a controller (jedi-mind tricks and telekinesis), and a leader (Battle Meditation and Force Healing and such).
But, I'd want the powers to be available to all of the Jedi builds, just keying off of different stats. That way you could have a defender minoring in leader without multiclassing, and would represent well the in-universe explanation of the Jedi having differing strengths in the force.
For the other classes the Soldier would be a defender that could be melee or ranged (I haven't worked out how a ranged defender would work yet), the Scoundrel would be a striker, and the Noble a leader of course. The only class that doesn't make sense in the 4e roles is the Scout, as skill-monkey isn't really a viable roll. Would probably end up as another kind of striker.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

For the other classes the Soldier would be a defender that could be melee or ranged (I haven't worked out how a ranged defender would work yet)

That might be because it's impossible. (Or just a bad idea, like having the melee ranger and archer ranger use the same class.)

You could split the class into two. Have one ranged soldier "gunner" (artillery/striker) and another a melee soldier (defender).

You don't have to convert classes 1:1.

 

[dirklancer]

I actually did look at Gamma World as an inspiration, and I do like the idea of taking the mutations idea and converting it to something more in line with Modern, but I think it would be better to use the careers as the basis because just using the attributes would really limit the options. Plus it would reflect the original Modern better since that almost required you to use different combinations. But I don't agree that you should limit the levels. I think you could easily do higher level modern campaigns. My biggest issue with using Gamma World is that game seems to be built more as a limited play model for gaming, and it might not work well for a group that wants to do a really long-term campaign because your characters would cap out pretty easily. I think Essentials as a base could work, but it would need some tweaking. I was actually thinking of building the careers in a way that you could change careers at different tiers. And I do see the limits of the attribute based classes if you want certain combinations, but there can be ways to work around that. If you base a career on certain attributes, you just need to have a good enough score in that attribute and you will be effective in your powers even if you have a core class that uses a different one (Strong hero Solider for example). Or just built on the feats and have ones that let you use another attribute for ranged attacks.

 

[SabreCat]

For the other classes the Soldier would be a defender that could be melee or ranged (I haven't worked out how a ranged defender would work yet),

I would expect some kind of "covering fire" mechanic. You're not tanking in the traditional Defender vein, but you still make things difficult for enemies trying to attack your allies (mark replaced by some sort of "bullet shyness"), and get to punish them for doing so (you shoot when they pop out from cover).

 

[Kelvor Ravenstar]

I would expect some kind of "covering fire" mechanic. You're not tanking in the traditional Defender vein, but you still make things difficult for enemies trying to attack your allies (mark replaced by some sort of "bullet shyness"), and get to punish them for doing so (you shoot when they pop out from cover).

That's essentially what I was thinking so far, just didn't know how well that would work.

 

[dirklancer]

That's essentially what I was thinking so far, just didn't know how well that would work.

I think you do it similar to a standard mark. Maybe something where you have a ranged mark, and have an encounter power or even an at-will stance that lets you attack that target if they make an attack against any ally or if they move from cover. I know a lot of people aren't too keen on how they did the stances and such for fighters in Essentials, but I think they were a good idea and could be used for something like this.

 

[dirklancer]

Some more thoughts I had while at dinner with the in-laws:
-I was thinking the attribute class could determine things like hit points, number of skills, and saving throw bonuses, while the career would add special basic abilities, skill list, etc.
-Careers could be the place to get utility powers, encounters, and daily powers. Class would be the place to get various other bonus abilities.

As for what DeadSmurf was talking about with using a format like Gamma World, maybe make one choice be your Attribute class and another be your Career. Each would have its list of powers that you gain access to, although I would add a few more choices at each category. I think you could easily expand that format to level 20 by adding more options and tweaking a few things (like bonus damage to powers going back to half level), but I think the basic weapons presented in there would not be a good option. It works fine for Gamma World, but I think people would want auto-fire options, shotguns to do a certain thing, etc. Plus I would like some feats. But I could see a similar format working.

Sorry for all the ideas getting thrown out into the ether here, but I appreciate all the feedback. That's why I posted this here.

And the real reason I am doing this is for a sci-fi thing I am running, and the system I am using is ok, but I think it needs a lot of tweaking.