4E GSL - non core references

[Jraynack]

I think the idea is to add new content to D&D so that the majority (who buy WoTC's D&D books and like to play that game) will want to buy the book, rather than to publish reworkings of what is already present in D&D, which is appealing only to those (hypothesised to be a minority) who don't like what WoTC is selling them in the D&D books.

Exactly - besides, I would rather create an entirely new role-playing system then rehash something that it already done.

 

[Ranger REG]

I think the idea is to add new content to D&D so that the majority (who buy WoTC's D&D books and like to play that game) will want to buy the book, rather than to publish reworkings of what is already present in D&D, which is appealing only to those (hypothesised to be a minority) who don't like what WoTC is selling them in the D&D books.

Yeah, I'm still not convinced.

3e spoiled me, or rather the d20 System spoiled me. I'm more of a d20 gamer today than a D&D gamer back in the 80's, and proud of it.

Guess I'll have to wait.

 

[jmucchiello]

So, why, as a publisher, should I devote my time rehashing what is already done for just one or two customers to have variety when I can make something entirely new to fit in the system they already love and enjoy?

You are dividing the OGL D&D market into only 2 halves: those books that take the SRD, modify it slightly and create a rehashed D&D (Iron Heroes, Arcana Unearthed), AND those products that add more material that you can take or leave as needed (101 uses for a dead kobold, etc). There is a third kind of product: One that adds a subsystem to the existing game but that requires a slight tweak to some of the core definitions. (Wounds and Vitality can't be added to the GSL because you have to redefine hit points, for example.) It's this third kind of product that you are ignoring which I believe Ranger REG is saying he wants.

I want to write a 4e product that adds a 10 level tier below Heroic and allows for character to grow into being heroes. Can't be done with the GSL because in to accomplish it, I need to redefine and rewrite parts of how classes are constructed. These redefinitions just affect how 1st level works (since you already have some of your class abilities from lower level, you don't gain them at 1st level). I'm out of luck. My 3e PDF Before Level One is a good seller. And based on the number of folks who don't like the power level 4e starts at, I'm sure Common Beginnings would also have sold well for me. But there is no way for me to make the 4e product I would like to make.

 

[Jraynack]

You are dividing the OGL D&D market into only 2 halves: those books that take the SRD, modify it slightly and create a rehashed D&D (Iron Heroes, Arcana Unearthed), AND those products that add more material that you can take or leave as needed (101 uses for a dead kobold, etc). There is a third kind of product: One that adds a subsystem to the existing game but that requires a slight tweak to some of the core definitions.

I ignored the 3rd type of product because 1) those are the types of products we make (Honor and Corruption, Professions, our Subclass Series) and 2) I like those type of products so I really don't have any beef with them. Those products, I think, make the OGL shine.

I want to write a 4e product that adds a 10 level tier below Heroic and allows for character to grow into being heroes. Can't be done with the GSL because in to accomplish it, I need to redefine and rewrite parts of how classes are constructed. These redefinitions just affect how 1st level works (since you already have some of your class abilities from lower level, you don't gain them at 1st level). I'm out of luck.

I feel for you, because not all of our stuff converts over as well or at all (subclasses for one). However, I have found that some of our products, like Honor and Corruption, will be better as 4th Edition products - smooth and refreshing.

I converted almost all of the hundreds of feats we created over to 4th and found some I will have to leave behind. For me, 3rd Edition organized and revitalized 1st and 2nd edition info nicely. I am quite upset that 4th changes the fluff around so now those 3rd Edition books fluff is also out the window (unless you continue with the old fluff).

Though it might sound like it, I am by no means completely satisfied with the GSL - but OGC is not dead because of it - it is now in hands of the publishers. As of now, I accept the GSL because I want to make 4th Edition products. I also find that I enjoy making 4th Edition products.

I don't have enough pull to make a stand like Necromancer or Paizo or the others. If I don't make 4th Edition products, frankly, I won't sell anything. That is how the market is for me right now even after 5 years of publishing.

 

[CapnZapp]

But there is no way for me to make the 4e product I would like to make.

Except, of course, that the GSL isn't the only way forward. You could rely on good old copyright law.

Though I understand that is not an attractive option for many 3PPs. Let's then hope the team that is building a GSL-lookalike on top of the d20 OGL (reverse-engineering the GSL as it were) finishes soon

 

[jmucchiello]

Except, of course, that the GSL isn't the only way forward. You could rely on good old copyright law.

As much as I believe this would be easy to do, I can't afford that route if push comes to shove. That's why I'm writing nothing now. Perhaps a new GSL will allow me to write what I want. But I seriously doubt the next GSL iteration (8 months from now, at this rate) will solve my issues with the GSL.

Though I understand that is not an attractive option for many 3PPs. Let's then hope the team that is building a GSL-lookalike on top of the d20 OGL (reverse-engineering the GSL as it were) finishes soon

I've participated in the beginnings of those threads. I don't expect that project will lessen the cost of hiring an attorney.

 

[FormerlyDickensC]

Before acting on this suggestion, remember that for any party to the GSL the principal constraint on action is not copyright law but contract law. And in entering the contract that is the GSL a publisher agrees to grant WotC more rights with respect to its published material than it would enjoy under copyright law.

contract law would only apply if you accept the terms of GSL. if you forgo the GSL then copyright applies. this was what I assumed the OP had in mind.