D&D 4E 4E NPC's not walking treasure troves?

[Eyada]

With the simplification of items in 4E, is it realistic for me (based on what we know) to now expect that I can make an NPC capable of challenging my characters (without having to resort to non-item-based arbitrary bonuses) whose death will not result in the PCs gaining so much wealth that it seems they've won some sort of lottery? Is this topic discussed in either of the preview books?

According to the magic item design article, PCs only truly require the three primary +items(Weapon, Armor, "Neck") to be combat-effective. Assuming NPCs can successfully use the same rules, the mass-payout after an NPC death would be significantly reduced, right? Especially if you opted to not give the NPC numerous "optional" items.

I couldn't find a Search function, and my brief manual search of the forums didn't find any threads on this particular topic, so I thought'd I put it out there for discussion. Equipment assignment was always the most agonizing part of 3.x NPC creation for me, so I'm hoping the new item system can fix it. Anyone else feel the same way?

 

[Mercule]

My hope is that the reduced item dependency and simplified NPC creation will allow me to include some significant NPCs who don't even have magic items. I might have to make the a "level" higher for the same XP value. Then again, it's been said a +/-1 difference in level won't make that much difference in the utility of an opponent, so maybe I won't even have to do that much.

 

[FourthBear]

I definitely hope so as well. While the Christmas Tree Effect was annoying, equally annoying was the "Piles of +X Weapons and Armor to Resell" problem. It was hard to put much emphasis on the special value of magic items when your characters are toting back enough magical hardware looted from NPCs to outfit their own personal guard. So I hope that the incidence of "necessary" magic items for NPCs goes way down.

I will note that I recall an early play-blog entry in which the writer remarked how weird it was to be finished with a mid-level combat and not have a pile of minor magical items to pick through and identify. So I'm hopeful.

 

[eleran]

With the simplification of items in 4E, is it realistic for me (based on what we know) to now expect that I can make an NPC capable of challenging my characters (without having to resort to non-item-based arbitrary bonuses) whose death will not result in the PCs gaining so much wealth that it seems they've won some sort of lottery? Is this topic discussed in either of the preview books?

According to the magic item design article, PCs only truly require the three primary +items(Weapon, Armor, "Neck") to be combat-effective. Assuming NPCs can successfully use the same rules, the mass-payout after an NPC death would be significantly reduced, right? Especially if you opted to not give the NPC numerous "optional" items.

I couldn't find a Search function, and my brief manual search of the forums didn't find any threads on this particular topic, so I thought'd I put it out there for discussion. Equipment assignment was always the most agonizing part of 3.x NPC creation for me, so I'm hoping the new item system can fix it. Anyone else feel the same way?

That is exactly the impression I got as well. Here's hoping.

 

[Derren]

Whenever I complain about monsters lacking out of combat abilities some people say "Just give them magic items to do it".

So it seems that monsters and NPCs will still be treasure troves full of magic items.

 

[kennew142]

With the simplification of items in 4E, is it realistic for me (based on what we know) to now expect that I can make an NPC capable of challenging my characters (without having to resort to non-item-based arbitrary bonuses) whose death will not result in the PCs gaining so much wealth that it seems they've won some sort of lottery? Is this topic discussed in either of the preview books?

Adding bonuses for NPCs to replce magic items is not arbitrary so long as it follows a formula. That said, I don't think that it will necessarily hamper the NPC if you leave these bonuses out of the equation.

According to the magic item design article, PCs only truly require the three primary +items(Weapon, Armor, "Neck") to be combat-effective. Assuming NPCs can successfully use the same rules, the mass-payout after an NPC death would be significantly reduced, right? Especially if you opted to not give the NPC numerous "optional" items.

I couldn't find a Search function, and my brief manual search of the forums didn't find any threads on this particular topic, so I thought'd I put it out there for discussion. Equipment assignment was always the most agonizing part of 3.x NPC creation for me, so I'm hoping the new item system can fix it. Anyone else feel the same way?

I think your assumptions are dead on. I'm debating (with myself) making a house rule in my game to the effect that a magical weapon/armor/implement/item will provide a scaling bonus based on the character's level. This would have two effects:

1) Cool magic items the party finds at lower levels will continue to be useful at higher levels without finding a mage/cleric to enhance them.

2) The resale value of 'required' magic items will be reduced. Every +x item of coolness will resell at its base value (+1 item of coolness). If I remove the omnipresent 3e magic mart, this could be a solution that works.

 

[kennew142]

Whenever I complain about monsters lacking out of combat abilities some people say "Just give them magic items to do it".

So it seems that monsters and NPCs will still be treasure troves full of magic items.

I actually felt bad for you in that thread, because I don't like the idea that magic items are the solution to the problem any more than you do. I'm still of the opinion that the best solution is to give the monsters you think will need them access to rituals that provide the necessary out of comabt abilities. Since they are out of combat abilities, they shouldn't unbalance the creature within the context of an encounter. They are IMO narrative tools to make the monster fit into the campaign/scenario backstory, or its role.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

So it seems that monsters and NPCs will still be treasure troves full of magic items.

Sorry derren, only in your game.
I think NPC will work great without any items.

And they will do funny tricks if you give them only one signature item. And once in a while you can give them a magical sword or amour.

edit: and i think i mentioned in the other thread, tha in my opinion there should be one sentence in the MM: Ritulals for every monster the DM thinks it´s appropriate.

If this works - and it seems to work from what we heard (even if standart NSCs might still have more than one or two magical items) - 4e will surely be better suited to my play than 3.5 (gearing up ---> kill ----> gearing up is very very dull, but essential to survive in 3.5)

 

[Eldragon]

Whats wrong with the DM cheating a little to make an NPC stronger? Maybe he rolled his attributes really well, or uses a lot of 1 shot magic items?

 

[Stalker0]

One of my biggest hopes for 4e.

Making high level npcs in 3e wasn't that bad. Making them with their items took forever, and sometimes I want to throw lots of npcs at my party without inflating the economy.