D&D 4E 4e with 7/8/9 players

[mykelsss]

My campaign has been going on for half a year and has been on hiatus for several months. In two weeks we start up again, but the interest level is so high that the amount of people I feel I have to take in is quite high, probably 7 but possibly 8 or 9.

4e combat can kind of bog down in my opinion if people do not know what they're doing or tell jokes etc. I don't want my friends to feel like they cant have fun though so does anyone know of any visual aids or rules changes I could use to expedite combat and keep it light, fluffy, and fun instead of cantankerous and slow?

 

[Walknot]

My campaign has been going on for half a year and has been on hiatus for several months. In two weeks we start up again, but the interest level is so high that the amount of people I feel I have to take in is quite high, probably 7 but possibly 8 or 9.

4e combat can kind of bog down in my opinion if people do not know what they're doing or tell jokes etc. I don't want my friends to feel like they cant have fun though so does anyone know of any visual aids or rules changes I could use to expedite combat and keep it light, fluffy, and fun instead of cantankerous and slow?

We have the initiative sequence on a whiteboard so that everyone can see where they are in the lineup. Then we also have someone reminding whoever is up next . that helps a bit, but for 7 - 8 people, you need some more tips.

 

[Revinor]

First thing - IMHO, there is NO way you can get people entertained with combat with 9 PC at the table, regardless of rules and props you will use.

Anyway, here are few things I'm using (or considered using), which may help you. I used to perform a fight where every player (5 of them) was controlling himself and one 'NPC' (monster actually) fighting against 12 opponents - and it was manageble.

• Get some kind of tokens which can be put under the miniatures to represent common states. I'm using poker chips (round ones), from some kind of cheap poker game - they are single-color, light plastic, happen to be perfect size for medium size miniatures. I'm using red to represent bloodied, allow defenders to pick their colors to represent marking (it is a bit of waste in case of paladin, but dragonborn fighter get a chance to mark quite a few with a breath weapon) and use leftover colors randomly (only 2 left, so I use one for most common monster ability in given fight and leftover for 'other' effects, which has to be handled by hand).
  
• Print out cards for each of the players for initiative tracking. You can also print out some for monsters if you like to prepare, or just use blank ones and write monster names on it on the fly. When rolling initiative, write it down for each monster and tell players to remember theirs. Then count down from the highest number down and put the cards in your hand in that order. Then, put the 'deck' next to the game board and everybody takes their turn if their card is on the top, afterwards, put the card below the stack. If people like to know the order, show them the cards, but don't give them away - chances of messing things up are too high - and only you are allowed to move the cards on the stack.
  Important thing here is that you don't care about the numbers, except at very start - because they are not important afterwards, only order is important. Having End-of-Round card is also helpful, to indicate when certain abilities (sneak, quarry etc) are reset.
  
• Clean the game area from all uneeded things. Only miniatures, board and dice (and props like initiative cards) are allowed on the table, plus possibly card with the power which is played at the moment. Things like character sheets should be out of the table - you can arrange some smaller stools/tables around, or players can keep them on their laps in worst case.
  
• Print out powers for the players on the cards. While it might be harder to 'see' all of them at the start, it gets easier with time and player can have his important action prepared on the top, instead to finding it over and over again on bigger sheet.
  
• Prepare A4/letter page for yourself, with a simple grid, having players listed top to down and few important stats listed for each of them. 4 defenses, max hp, healing surge value, passive insight and perception should be enough. Make letters as big as possible while fitting everything on one page, while preserving enough whitespace - it has to be used fast. When you resolve attacks, don't ask the players for any data which you have on this card - just tell them the final result.
  
• If you don't use original scenario, put monster details in readable, condensed format and use this instead of flipping monster manual. Having defenses and attacks bit bigger/bold helps with finding data fast (I'll try to attach an example of what I'm using).
  
• Stress to the players that they are supposed to prepare their actions while they are waiting. There is nothing worse the player complaining that he has to wait 20 minutes for his turn and when it finally comes, he starts flipping through his power cards wondering how they work. While it is sometimes possible that situation has changed dramatically just a moment ago and he has to rething his actions, in most cases, he can fully plan his actions way ahead. There will be a subconcious resistance to this idea - after all, being prepared will make his 'active time' shorter - but you have to enforce it when you have many players.
  
• Having a timer for a round can be bit harsh, but might be a necessity if your players are taking too much time for square counting/alternative routes. Don't count the time needed to resolve the attacks - this will penalize wizards. Just require the player to declare the move and type of attack/targets fast - rest should take as much time as it is needed to do it properly.
  

 

[darjr]

I've tried having someone else keep track of initiative. If that player isn't attentive it is a bit of a problem. If you do have a couple of attentive willing players, put them to work.

Initiative is the big one. A huge weight off, get a player to collect the rolls and deal with the issues. Also as far as he is concerned, your just a another player that controls the monsters and rolls for them.

Condition tracking is big to.

If your players are really good, you can even pair some of them off for attacks. Both by the players and monsters. This can be problematic for creatures with secrets or special powers, keep those for yourself.

Note that I've only really tried the first one. The second one tends to get done by the players for their own effects... which is partially the same. The last one I want to try, but I think only with a table full of people who've dm'ed or could.

 

[PeelSeel2]

My typical game group is 5-12 players for 4e, with 6-8 being average. A lot of socializing goes on and can distract from the game. We let them know it. I whistle loudly and several other players say "Hey lets quiet down and concentrate on the adventure." It works. Sometimes we have to do this a lot, other times not at all. We generate no bad feelings.

For combats, I use to play the grid, which with that many people gets to be a bummer. It would in any system. We do grid less combat. We draw generally where everyone is at. We wing attacks of opportunity, we are generous with flanking, and push/pulls/slides/etc are imagined for effects and may generate opportunity attacks. For area of effects, generally I state as a DM how many I think are in the area as a base, and roll from their. "We will say their are 2 target for it on a 1-3, 4-5 their are 3, and on a 6 4 targets." Works good.

The general thing I like to keep in mind is combats should last no longer than 4-8 rounds. Be generous with players on extra damage.

We do an initiative count. If it reaches your count, and you are not ready with your action and dice, you are passed up until you signal you are ready. Cures players not being ready QUICK. Also If 4 players have a count higher than their opponents, I have them all 4 roll for attacks and actions at the same time to speed it up even more. If they want to cheat, that is their business. Generally players are real good at policing their own cheaters.

I as a DM must keep the flow going and the story moving. If it comes to a rule decision that can be put off for a little bit, I have a player look it up quickly while we continue on. If it needs to be decided right then and nobody really knows how it would work, I make a ruling we can all live with and we move on. We look the rule up later.

Anything I use DM fiat on, I have to make sure the majority of the group is behind it and it makes sense to everyone. We do not argue in game. We save our discussions for after game. What we decide helps us out next session.

Thats my pence worth.

 

[Mengu]

Can you find a co-DM? If you have 9 players, that's 10 of you. 2 DM's and 4 players per DM is probably better entertainment value. The DM's/groups can corraborate, players can switch back and forth, you can combine groups when some people are missing, etc.

The DM's would need to design the adventures in ways that would accomodate two groups. This can certainly be done and is a lot of fun. The roleplaying can be done in a big group, at which point, one DM would take on the "main" story teller, while the other would be playing one of the NPC's.

Occasionally you could organize one giant fight where they are all fighting, but I'd keep that to a minimum, maybe one such encounter every 3 levels or so. Otherwise it can become a drag.

If this is not possible, I'd say just try to keep things fast and loose.

 

[MadLordOfMilk]

Honestly? I think once you reach THAT many players, a laptop to help you keep track of everything would probably help a ton. Now, the problem is, I don't know of much at all in the way of 4e software... I only say this because it's what I always thought would help me the most when I've ended up in that situation. Mostly when about 8 people show up to a session, even worse if I'm not expecting it.

 

[Nebulorum]

Honestly? I think once you reach THAT many players, a laptop to help you keep track of everything would probably help a ton. Now, the problem is, I don't know of much at all in the way of 4e software... I only say this because it's what I always thought would help me the most when I've ended up in that situation. Mostly when about 8 people show up to a session, even worse if I'm not expecting it.

I agree with this and have posted my combat traking software on another thread:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan...ual-combat-cards-combat-tracker-software.html

Main site:

Virtual Combat Cards | Ex Nebula

I have played only a couple of times with this software, but it does help things to be fluid. I also track PC hitpoints, this kind of keeps them on edge.

Nebulorum

 

[evilbob]

[*]Get some kind of tokens which can be put under the miniatures to represent common states. I'm using poker chips (round ones), from some kind of cheap poker game - they are single-color, light plastic, happen to be perfect size for medium size miniatures. I'm using red to represent bloodied, allow defenders to pick their colors to represent marking (it is a bit of waste in case of paladin, but dragonborn fighter get a chance to mark quite a few with a breath weapon) and use leftover colors randomly (only 2 left, so I use one for most common monster ability in given fight and leftover for 'other' effects, which has to be handled by hand).

Red poker chips for bloodied: that is an awesome idea. It gives everyone a very quick visual cue. Totally stealing that one.