4E: Working with/reskinning Hengeyokai?

[Roseweave]

I wanted to play a character with some sort of Spidery theme, and this seemed like the easiest thing to refluff, the idea of being able to turn into a small animal to conceal yourself was really cool for a character that used both magic and rogue-like abilities(Dagger-based Sorcerer) so I ended up going with this race, going with cat reskinned as Spider.

The thing is that my character isn't actually a "Hengeyokai", which is something more specific to Japanese or at least Kara-Tur. My character's of a pretty mixed heritage, but part of it comes from Calimshan, so I thought it would be cool to instead refluff her as being part Jinn, as there are a lot of Jinn that are more fae-like in nature and not purely "elemental spirits". But since Djinn are associated with the Elemental planes it also helps explain where she gets her sorcerer "blood line".

In particular the Si'lah seems to work for this, being a generally animal based shapeshifter. According to G Willow Wilson it may share an etymology with the English/Scottish "Seelie"(though goodness knows how that happened) so be intended to somewhat mirror western changeling type fairies.

Unfortunately Hengeyokai never got any feats to work with. Their Hybrid forms while conceptually cool are practically useless outside of communicating with animals in combat, which is pretty Niche. There's a lot of questions too like, would a Fox Hengeyokai have a useful Bite attack? What stat would it be counted off? etc.

 

[Joshua Randall]

You could conceptually combine the PH2 Druid's Wild Shape with some of the transformative / shapeshifting powers from the Warden. Mechanically Wild Shape is tied into the Beast Form powers (can't use weapon/implement, must have 'beast form' keyword) but you could work with your DM to relax that restriction.

Or just say you can become a spider 3 times per day or whatever and while a spider you can do whatever the DM/you agree spiders can do: sneak around, go in small places, communicate with other spiders (?), etc.

 

[Roseweave]

Well I already have the rules with Hengeyokai, it's just finding a way of adding more features to it without it becoming unbalanced.

 

[Joshua Randall]

4e tends to balance shapeshifting powers by saying 'while in beast / animal / whatever form, you cannot use attack powers *or* you can only use this certain subset of attack powers'. The RAW hengeyokia has 'cannot attack' and the RAW druid has 'can only use this subset of powers'.

If you let a character shapeshift and continue to use all her attack powers with no restrictions, that's a slight upgrade, but probably not 'unbalanced' (whatever that means). Just make sure the shapeshifter isn't overshadowing the other characters.

 

[Roseweave]

Basically in Spider mode she has tiny size(great for hiding) and gains a climb speed. I think I'm okay with not being able to attack in that mode, except low powered bite attacks. The Hybrid mode is what's interesting to me - it would make sense to have a partial climb speed, maybe, of 3 or 4, but in turn have some restriction for it. Penalties to other things like AC could be deadly at low level. So still trying to figure out a balance.

 

[MwaO]

Have you considered reskinning Wererat?

 

[Roseweave]

I'm p. happy with HEngeyokai to be honest because it gives me a bonus to acrobatics, the stats stack well with Storm Sorcerer and I can talk to bugs lol

ill take a look tho

 

[Manbearcat]

Have you considered reskinning Wererat?

I was thinking that or Pack Outcast. Something like:

1^st – Body of the Wolf becomes Body of the Spider: At-will, Minor Action, Shapechange to spider. Instead of +1 speed, you get a Climb Speed equal to your speed. Highest ability score +3/6/9, d8 poison damage (2d8 @ 21) + enhancement of your primary weapon/implement.

5^th – Instead of the wolf CA ability, you get an Encounter Power - Free Action rider to your Spider Bite. It would need to be punchy or repertoire-broadening enough to weigh against the opportunity cost of your normal shtick, encouraging the expenditure of the action economy once per encounter (Minor to Shapechange in, Standard + FA to deploy, Minor to Shapechange out). Maybe Weakened or Restrained UEoYNT. Compare with Ooze Master (multi-target, MA to deploy, + highest Abmod acid damage + slowed rider).

10^th – +2 Power Bonus Athletics and Stealth.

So:

- Climb speed while in form w/ scaling At-will poison MBA.

- Encounter power single target heavy control rider to MBA.

- +2 PB two relevant skills.

6^th level and 10^th level Daily Utilities to augment the form is easily enough created as well.

 

[Joshua Randall]

You could also look at the spider-y themes: Melee-Magthere Champion, House Priestess, etc.

For example Melee-Magthere Champion (say that 3 times fast) has the Lurking Spider immediate reaction encounter power that slows someone who hits you. We could reflavor this as: when you're in spider form, you affect people who hit you with weak spider poison that slows them.

You could probably cobble together some of the theme powers from that article (Dragon #413).

 

[Tony Vargas]

Another option for turning into a tiny form is the Tuatha theme from HotFw. Re-skinning is usually very easy in 4e, you change the flavor, leave the mechanics the same.

Re-skin immobilizing/restraining powers as as webs, shift powers as spidery scuttling, climbing as growing spidery legs that cling to walls, etc...

...poison's another obvious one, but is really a kinda sucky damage type because there's so much immunity out there, the dragonborn poison breath weapon got some feat support, IDK about any other examples of shoring up poison.

I'm sure there's gotto be some spidery drow stuff out there, too, of course.