[4th ed] Clockwork Horrors now DEMONS? And Neogi...

[Gunpowder]

I don't really know why decisions today need to be constrained by a setting that's been out of print for years and created by a company that no longer exists. Getting caught up in continuity issues is one of the main reasons I stay away from the major comic lines.

Demons are corrupted primordials which were powerful agents of chaos, constantly creating and destroying at a whim. An invention that brings destruction through nearly unstoppable creation is right up a demon's alley, especially one that specializes in creating new and interesting ways to destroy.
"Behold, by splitting a single atom (I just discovered them you see), an object so infinitesimally small I can't even see it, I can do this!
*BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM*

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

Ehhh...probably took a self-paced weekend course at the Learning Annex...

*sigh* That link tells me that civilization really is staring into the Gaping Maw of the Abyss.
A sampling of courses offered:

course 304-1: Effective 'Neogi'ation
description: In this course you will learn the latest, most effective techniques to bargain with interplanar slavers-- and GET WHAT YOU WANT!
Celebrity Instructor: Donald Trump of "The Apprentice"

course 088-7: Beginner clockwork horror construction
description: In just two weeks, learn to build the multiverse's most malevolent machine from spare parts in your garage!
Celebrity Instructor: Paul Teutul Sr. of "American Chopper"

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

course 088-7: Beginner clockwork horror construction
description: In just two weeks, learn to build the multiverse's most malevolent machine from spare parts in your garage!
Celebrity Instructor: Paul Teutul Sr. of "American Chopper"

Actually, shouldn't that be Paul Teufel, Sr.?

Love that show!

"Paulie! Mikey! Looka the jaws on that Horror! We wouldn'ta done it like that- that's got no style. And you need a sissy grip on it!"

"Aaaaaaah whaddaya know, Old Man- like you ever really thought about it- you mixed brown leather with your chrome- that's gonna look TERRIBLE when it gets blood all over it."

 

[Saeviomagy]

Is it just me, or is the old backstory (they're mysterious... wOoOo!) not incompatible with the new one (the mystery is... a demon did it. WoOoO!)?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

They're not incompatible per se, but certain details of all the creatures involved- Neogi elders being sane & machiavellian rather than utterly insane because they're being eaten from the inside; chaotic & destructive demons creating something that is quite clearly the result of patience and careful workmanship; mysterious origins that any DM could work with vs a definite origin- come across as...as...arbitrary if not outright disrespectful of the original material and internally inconsistent.

The pieces of the puzzle remain somewhat of a jumbled mess.

 

[Stormonu]

Okay, now that I read the duplicate ability, I can see the limitation:

- The triggering creature needs to be adjacent to the clockhorror, so in this case the best strategy is to get the party together. A four-person party has only 12 squares adjacent to them, which limits the number of duplicates generated, while a lone character can be surrounded by 8 clockhorrors. Of course, this leaves the party vulnerable to bursts and blasts.

So clockwork horrors are now Stargate replicators?

Actually, I think the most jarring change to neogi was from 2E to 3E, in which they were given hands. And they seem to have lost their umber hulk slaves.

 

[Klaus]

So clockwork horrors are now Stargate replicators?

Actually, I think the most jarring change to neogi was from 2E to 3E, in which they were given hands. And they seem to have lost their umber hulk slaves.

The Encounter Groups in MM2 list neogi with Umber Hulks.

And now that we have several varieties of Umber Hulks, the neogi can take their pick!

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

The Orc Within
haha, classic, sir!

DannyAlcatraz,
yeah that's what gets me, a demon of construction?! paradox, ain't it?

 

[Stoat]

Does making the horrors demon-engineered clockwork improve on their old story of being a mysterious destructive plague, responsible for the nomadism of an entire people?

I don't recall any connection between the Neogi and the Clockwork Horrors in Spelljammer. I don't recall any connection between them in 3.X either.

To my recollection, Clockwork Horrors have always been fairly generic, "OMG, this Monster wants to eat everything!!!" To the extent they had a backstory, it was "nobody knows from whence they come." So I guess now we know.

I've never been a superfan of the Neogi, but I did like the idea of the great old masters being insane, senile spawning pods. However, like many flavor changes (particularly those involving fairly obscure monsters) it is easy enough to change back.

Further, I am completely serious when I say that favor change for the sake of change. D&D isn't a comic book, and it need not be confined by some rigid canon. I want variety. I want different interpretations of the same concepts. I can pick and choose what I like well enough. So, WotC, give me more change!

 

[darkadelphia]

Personally, I've never known any players or DMs to care much about D&D canon. Everyone tends to reflavor as needed. Personally, I love that 4e changes things so often, because it provides more fuel for my own creativity, and keeps players on their toes as to which edition's lore will be used for a given monster.