4th Edition Psion (2.0)

[DreamChaser]

I agree with the idea of not separating them out...they work well for all three builds: specialist telepath, specialist TK, and generalist.


The problem is that it doesn't make sense that the telepath would be able to take any tk powers while lacking the core "psihand" power / class feature. The two start out (build) diametrically different then merge in the level-by-level application.

I would give all psions both telepathy and mindhand. Make the two builds Disciple and Wilder. The build choice come out through either wild surge or disciplined mind (below).

Disciplined Mind -- Psion Feature
You sharpen your focus to ignore the whims of fate.
Encounter (special) * Psionic
Special: You must expend a healing surge to use this power: you recover no hit points.
Minor Action
Effect: You are considered to have rolled a "10" on all Psionic power attack rolls. You add your modifiers to your roll and roll damage as normal. This effect last until the end of your encounter: you cannot end it voluntarily. If you wish to end the effect prematurely, you must succeed in a saving throw against it at the end of your round.
Special: You can use this power once per day at heroic tier. At paragon tier, you can use this power twice per day and at epic tier you can use it 3 times per day. In no case can you use the power more than once per encounter.

Wild Surge -- Psion Feature
You embrace the powers of chaos to heighten your psionic attacks.
Encounter (special) * Psionic
Special: You must expend a healing surge to use this power: you recover no hit points.
Minor Action
Effect: You are able to treat any successful attack with a Psionic attack as a critical; however, if you miss, you are dazed until the end of your next turn. You have no way of knowing how long this effect will last: at the end of each turn, you must succeed in a saving throw to continue it into the next round.
Special: You can use this power once per day at heroic tier. At paragon tier, you can use this power twice per day and at epic tier you can use it 3 times per day. In no case can you use the power more than once per encounter.


What do you think. This avoids the issue with one build being focused on a type of power and the other being focused on manipulating the power.

 

[OU812]

I agree with the idea of not separating them out...they work well for all three builds: specialist telepath, specialist TK, and generalist.


The problem is that it doesn't make sense that the telepath would be able to take any tk powers while lacking the core "psihand" power / class feature. The two start out (build) diametrically different then merge in the level-by-level application.

I would give all psions both telepathy and mindhand. Make the two builds Disciple and Wilder. The build choice come out through either wild surge or disciplined mind (below).

Disciplined Mind -- Psion Feature
You sharpen your focus to ignore the whims of fate.
Encounter (special) * Psionic
Special: You must expend a healing surge to use this power: you recover no hit points.
Minor Action
Effect: You are considered to have rolled a "10" on all Psionic power attack rolls. You add your modifiers to your roll and roll damage as normal. This effect last until the end of your encounter: you cannot end it voluntarily. If you wish to end the effect prematurely, you must succeed in a saving throw against it at the end of your round.
Special: You can use this power once per day at heroic tier. At paragon tier, you can use this power twice per day and at epic tier you can use it 3 times per day. In no case can you use the power more than once per encounter.

Wild Surge -- Psion Feature
You embrace the powers of chaos to heighten your psionic attacks.
Encounter (special) * Psionic
Special: You must expend a healing surge to use this power: you recover no hit points.
Minor Action
Effect: You are able to treat any successful attack with a Psionic attack as a critical; however, if you miss, you are dazed until the end of your next turn. You have no way of knowing how long this effect will last: at the end of each turn, you must succeed in a saving throw to continue it into the next round.
Special: You can use this power once per day at heroic tier. At paragon tier, you can use this power twice per day and at epic tier you can use it 3 times per day. In no case can you use the power more than once per encounter.


What do you think. This avoids the issue with one build being focused on a type of power and the other being focused on manipulating the power.

Hmmm... I did add Feats that allows Telepaths to take Mindhand as an additional At -Will power (slightly reduced in power) and Wilders to gain a (again slightly reduced) version of telepathy.

I originally did have all psions having MindHand, but changed my mind because of two reasons.

1. I felt Wilders (or TK specialists if you prefer) had a "natural" feel for TK, but that Telepaths could still manipulate TK if they so choose to learn or work for it - hence the available feats and powers. (Same with Wilders and Telepathy).

2. I wanted the Psion to be different from the Wizard. All Wizards get Mage-Hand. I really didn't want to seem like I was making another version of the wizard which a lot of gamers considered the older versions of the psion anyway.

As far as telepaths being able to tackle larger TK powers while missing Mindhand as a core power, I felt that it was probably easier for them to learn "Big" TK attacks than it was for them to learn a power that kinda goes against their grain and requires a different kind of concentration than they are used to. (In other words: For some people, it is easier to pick up a rock from the street and throw it, than balance it on their head. -- Does that make sense?) JMHO however.

If it helps...I take a kinda X-Men view of "Mental Abilities." You have a tendancy to be born with certain abilities, but you can always learn to hone other aspects of your powers. As I have said before, I prefer choices/options than being automatically railroaded down a predetermined path.


You have made good points however, and I would like to hear more opinions and ideas!

 

[DreamChaser]

My greater concern is the wilder (metapower) vs. telepath (power focus) builds. It doesn't make sense that all strong TK users are purely emotion driven. Nor should specialized telepaths always lack a strong emotional aspect.

In my view, this is would be the equivalent of giving one build of rogue sneak attack and another rogue weapon training.

Either the two builds should be purely Telepathy and TK **or** one build should be wilder and the other a counter / foil / equivalent to an emotive approach, thus my recommendation for Discple vs Wilder.

This gives us the counters of Xavier (disciple telepath), Magnito (disciple TK), Jean Gray (wilder Telepath), and Raven (not xmen but you get the idea, wilder TK).

These aren't perfect but it allows the concept (reason vs emotion) to extend to both "arts" of the psion (mind speaking and mind touch).

DC

 

[OU812]

My greater concern is the wilder (metapower) vs. telepath (power focus) builds. It doesn't make sense that all strong TK users are purely emotion driven. Nor should specialized telepaths always lack a strong emotional aspect.

In my view, this is would be the equivalent of giving one build of rogue sneak attack and another rogue weapon training.

Either the two builds should be purely Telepathy and TK **or** one build should be wilder and the other a counter / foil / equivalent to an emotive approach, thus my recommendation for Discple vs Wilder.

This gives us the counters of Xavier (disciple telepath), Magnito (disciple TK), Jean Gray (wilder Telepath), and Raven (not xmen but you get the idea, wilder TK).

These aren't perfect but it allows the concept (reason vs emotion) to extend to both "arts" of the psion (mind speaking and mind touch).

DC

Thank you, but I guess I don't understand your reasoning exactly.

I purposely set up the Psion, regardless of build, to be able to take whatever powers they want. Something in the older versions that annoyed me was the fact certain powers were basically denied certain classses for no real reasoning. I merely added aspects to the class builds and powers that make certain powers slightly easier/more effective because of their background (which makes sense to me in a way-for flavor) without denying them access to any power path or loss of any real power.

Additionally, by separating the telepaths from the TK specialists, it actually creates two different classes which, in my opinion, makes no sense to me--and also causes grave cracks in the system. Some creatures are pretty much immune to psychic attacks, which would leave Telepaths vulnerable and near useless in some combats, and TK specialists might as well be wizards with all their powers having the "force" descriptor.

Also, (just my opinion of course), "Disciple" sounds too religous to me and therefore not very appropriate for the Psion, but I've already said names aren't that big a deal to me anyway, nor that important in fourth edition really.

Again, thanks DC for your thoughts.

 

[DreamChaser]

Sorry...i must be being unclear...I don't favor separating the builds by telepath / TK...but currently the divide makes no sense to me...

One build is a power type focus (telepath) and the other gets a fairly potent "build power" which is completely separate from TK or telepathy.

Perhaps, keep the psicrystal feature and the wilder feature, make telepathy and farhand a separate feature (basically, they make two choices, either auto telepathy or auto TK) AND then choose either psycrystal -- though this one seems too powerful to me -- or surge. This way, there isn't the "read minds" or "wild surge" dichotomy.

And like it or not, there is going to be a "feel" for the class based upon the presence / absence of the at will feature ability. It is hard to feel like a kineticist without the mind hand power and it is hard to feel like a telepath without the telepathy power.

As the class is currently written, to play a wild telepath, I can choose all telepathy attack and utility powers but my class feature will be telekinesis and that breaks the feel.

DC

 

[DreamChaser]

Also, I think that dividing the class between "focused" and "wild" helps (more than the current structure of the class) to keep TK and telepathy integrated rather than separated.

As it stands, you have separated the class into tk focus and telepathy focus.

By make the two builds "Focused Psion" with the psycrystal and "Wild Psion" with the wild surge, you ensure that concept, not type of power, becomes the focus of the build.

DC

 

[OU812]

Sorry...i must be being unclear...I don't favor separating the builds by telepath / TK...but currently the divide makes no sense to me...

One build is a power type focus (telepath) and the other gets a fairly potent "build power" which is completely separate from TK or telepathy.

Perhaps, keep the psicrystal feature and the wilder feature, make telepathy and farhand a separate feature (basically, they make two choices, either auto telepathy or auto TK) AND then choose either psycrystal -- though this one seems too powerful to me -- or surge. This way, there isn't the "read minds" or "wild surge" dichotomy.

And like it or not, there is going to be a "feel" for the class based upon the presence / absence of the at will feature ability. It is hard to feel like a kineticist without the mind hand power and it is hard to feel like a telepath without the telepathy power.

As the class is currently written, to play a wild telepath, I can choose all telepathy attack and utility powers but my class feature will be telekinesis and that breaks the feel.

DC

I see! You are right I think. And, there is absolutely no reason why I can't make Mind Hand and Telepathy alternate choices for both builds. Thank you for your patience. I often wonder if my head is as thick as a dwarf's...