Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
4th edition, The fantastic game that everyone hated.
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6077626" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>[MENTION=87792]Neonchameleon[/MENTION] very true. Even in 1e the whole "I can use most any weapon pretty well" wasn't particularly significant. Every PC got some magic weapon and once you had one the minor tactical advantages you might get from switching weapons weren't worth it. A +1 sword is better against skeletons than a non-magical mace. Besides, your DM is very forgiving if you can carry a pole arm, a bow, and 2-3 different melee weapons around with you on top of armor and supplies without penalty... Archery could be pretty effective, but it was rarely decisive and would be decisive in 4e in the same situation (IE where the enemy cannot approach the party and lacks effective ranged attacks). Its not like a 4e fighter can't use a bow, he's even automatically proficient with most bows...</p><p></p><p>I'd note too that paladins in 1e were hard-coded against archery, it violated their code of honor to not be in the front lines. Of course the "make a player option overpowered and then add punishment mechanics" design of AD&D always meant that the standard player approach to everything was figuring out how to get the DM to foolishly allow them to subvert restrictions. I cannot tell you how many UA barbarians got played to pleas of "Its just a magic +4 vorpal sword, barbarians would use that. Conan would use that, and Bracers of AC2 aren't very magical!" ROFLMAO. Of course without all the items the UA barb was utterly useless except at low level. Impressively tough, but good luck hitting AC -4 and you were going to NEED that d12 when you got hit every single round... Honestly I know of no point in even making comparisons between 4e and AD&D generally in terms of character design mechanics. It is like comparing a club with an assault rifle.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 6077626, member: 82106"] [MENTION=87792]Neonchameleon[/MENTION] very true. Even in 1e the whole "I can use most any weapon pretty well" wasn't particularly significant. Every PC got some magic weapon and once you had one the minor tactical advantages you might get from switching weapons weren't worth it. A +1 sword is better against skeletons than a non-magical mace. Besides, your DM is very forgiving if you can carry a pole arm, a bow, and 2-3 different melee weapons around with you on top of armor and supplies without penalty... Archery could be pretty effective, but it was rarely decisive and would be decisive in 4e in the same situation (IE where the enemy cannot approach the party and lacks effective ranged attacks). Its not like a 4e fighter can't use a bow, he's even automatically proficient with most bows... I'd note too that paladins in 1e were hard-coded against archery, it violated their code of honor to not be in the front lines. Of course the "make a player option overpowered and then add punishment mechanics" design of AD&D always meant that the standard player approach to everything was figuring out how to get the DM to foolishly allow them to subvert restrictions. I cannot tell you how many UA barbarians got played to pleas of "Its just a magic +4 vorpal sword, barbarians would use that. Conan would use that, and Bracers of AC2 aren't very magical!" ROFLMAO. Of course without all the items the UA barb was utterly useless except at low level. Impressively tough, but good luck hitting AC -4 and you were going to NEED that d12 when you got hit every single round... Honestly I know of no point in even making comparisons between 4e and AD&D generally in terms of character design mechanics. It is like comparing a club with an assault rifle. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
4th edition, The fantastic game that everyone hated.
Top