[5e] Feedback for speciality priest.

[Irennan]

Hello. I'll premise that I don't have much experience with running 5e D&D: I know the rules, but I've been using a homebrew system at my table, so I have some troubles in figuring out how the rules that follow would play in practice (so they may be broken, or just weird to use).

That said, I plan to upload some (mostly) fluff-related material on the DMguild site (for free), and I'd like feedback on my idea for implementing the Sword Dancer of Eilistraee (a FR drow goddess; the class is described here: http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Sword_Dancer_of_Eilistraee) as a 5e domain. I've drawn from the 2e and 3e iterations of it, for determining what the class should be able to do.

-Domain Spells
I've chosen them mostly based on the background of the class

• 1st level: Charm Person, Magic Missile
• 2nd level: Moonbeam, Suggestion
• 3rd level: Create Food and Water, Beacon of Hope
• 4th level: Freedom of Movement, Locate Creature
• 5th level: Commune, Seeming

​
Magic Missile is an iconic power of the Sword Dancers; I've included charm spells because Eilistraee has the Charm domain in 3.5e; Create Food and Water, Freedom of Movement and Moonbeam are also very fitting for their fluff; and Commune is part of their powers in the 2e kit. Seeming and Locate Creature looked great to me, considering that many Sword Dancers work to find drow that need help, or can be brought to embrace a different life, which may require infiltrating in drow settlements, or pass through hostile areas. Beacon of Hope also seems adequate, given what Eilistraee stands for, but I was considering swapping it for Tongues (for communing and establishing relationships with other races, since Sword Dancers also act as emissaries) or Daylight.

-1st level: Clerics that choose Eilistraee's domain must pick the Performance: Dance, Song skills, instead of those in the standard cleric list, and can choose one among the following tools: Harp, Flute and Horn. They also gain advantage when taking Dance ​and Song checks, and have proficiency with all swords (and their variants, including daggers, rapiers and so on). However, the Sword Dancers are only proficient with light armors, and lose proficiency with shields.

I was also considering letting them use CHA as their casting stat instead of WIS, and swapping their proficiency in WIS saving throws for proficiency in DEX.

At first level, the Sword Dancers learn the Moonfire cantrip. According to the 2e rules, it requires Verbal and Somatic components, and uses a standard action. It generates a globe of clear light, that appears emanating from any part of the caster's body, whose intensity can be set by the caster (up to the brightness of real moonlight) and whose color can be blue-white, soft green, silvery or white. It can move about the body of the caster at any speed, and clerics of 4th level or higher can make it drift away, moving as fast as 40 feet per round, passing through openings of any size. The globe can fill up to 1 cubic foot per cleric level. Alternatively, I could just use the rules for Dancing Lights

-2nd level: The Sword Dancers have developed a kind of acrobatic sword-play technique that resembles a true dance. I like to think that their movements are dance steps guided by the song of Eilistraee that they hear.
Either way, to represent their style, I thought about this rule:

Channel Divinity - Eilistraee's Dance: The Sword Dancer must start a movement to activate this ability, and when she does:
1)she gains the benefits of the Mobile feat
2)she must take a Dance check (and, as said, she has advantage for it), gaining a bonus to her AC, DEX saves and ''to hit'' rolls equal to the result of the check (I mean CHA+Proficiency+d20), minus 12, divided by two (this bonus cannot go below +1).

This lasts up to a number of rounds equal to the Sword Dancer's DEX bonus. She can choose to repeat the Dance check every round, but must take the new result, even if worse.

The cleric must be wielding a sword and must not be using a shield, in order to use the bonuses.

-6th level:

Channel Divinity - Spellsong: The Sword Dancers are know for their ability to recreate spell effects through music. Using their Channel Divinity action, they can recall one expended spell slot, up to 3rd level (4th at cleric level 11).

-8th level:

Singing Sword: The Sword Dancers can make their sword ''sing'' to rally their hearts or guide them in battle. The song can have two effects, but only one (chosen at the beginning of the round) can be active at a given time.

1)Once per round, the cleric attack will deal extra d4 sonic damage (2d4 at level 14). Or perhaps I was thinking about granting an extra attack

2)Alternatively, the sword can sing to soothe its wielder and grant her courage: the cleric will gain proficiency in her saving throws against fear, charm (including suggestion, compulsion and the likes) and dominate person (grants advantage if already proficient). The effect lasts 1 round, and cannot be activated again for the following two rounds.

-17th level:

Sword of the Dark Maiden: Once per long rest, the Sword Dancer can turn her blade into a Dancing Sword. This is an iconic ability, and would work exactly like releasing a Dancing Sword, but I don't know long this effect should last, so any suggestion would be appreciated.

The blade can be also commanded to defend the Sword Dancer: upon being hit by an attack, if the sword is up to 5ft from her, she can use her reaction to make an attack roll, using her normal bonus. If the result is equal or greater than the enemy's, it means that the attack has been parried by the dancing sword.

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[Duan'duliir]

I like the idea of this sort of thing, if they are done well. Yours only has some minor issues, so I have written up how I would fix them.
First things I see wrong with this; There is no Dance or Sing skill in 5e, all of that sort of thing is wrapped into Performance
Also, no sonic damage type in 5e.
Solutions to these issues: Just give them the performance skill as well as their normal starting skills, and make the singing sword damage boost deal thunder damage

From there:
1st level feature (Think up a name for this one)
GAIN: proficiency in one musical instrument of your choice, longswords, shortswords, rapiers, scimitars, greatswords, (all these weapons are ones clerics don't normally gain proficiency in, unless they get all martial weapons from a subclass), the performance skill
LOOSE: proficiency with medium armour and shields
I wouldn't switch their casting stat, as that could cause some confusion. I would just go with the Dancing light cantrip, but be wary that drow get that cantrip through race, and so it would probably become redundant if drow characters took this subclass.

2nd level feature - Channel Divinity (Eilistraee's dance)
As a bonus action would be a better trigger
I wouldn't give them the benefits of the feat as you have worded it, as picking up that feat could make the features redundant. Give a +10 feet to speed and say they never trigger opportunity attacks is enough
Just give the bonus to Armour Class, Dexterity saving throws, and attack rolls as equal to the Charisma (Performance) modifier if they succeed on a DC 15 Charisma (Performance) check, rather than making them do lots of maths. I know that how you have it would immediately turn off any player at either of my tables if they were looking at playing this, and suspect that many players would be similar.

6th level feature - Channel Divinity (Spellsong)
Could probably be reworded. Otherwise it is fine.

8th level feature - Singing Sword
You should streamline it so that it is similar to the Divine Strike feature many cleric domains gain at this level. Perhaps make the damage d6s and make the other benefit a passive (always on) advantage on saving throws against fear. (elves and half elves already have advantage vs charmed, and cleric gives wisdom proficiency, which all charm and fear effects (to my knowledge) call for you to make a saving throw using. also dominate person is a charm effect.)

17th level feature - Sword of the Dark Maiden
This feature just seems off to me, and I cannot quite figure out why. It definitely needs some tweaking. For your reference, a dancing sword move around until it has made 4 attacks, and then trys to return to you. there is no limit to how many times it can do this, takes a bonus action to activate, and requires attunement

 

[Irennan]

Thank you for the feedback!

I thought that the Performance skill was still divided among various arts. It seems rather weird to me that someone who can dance can also automatically sing or act. Either way, if that's 5e take, I can't do anything but roll with it. Ok, so:

1st level
About the Performance skill: I chose to give advantage to the performance rolls because I was using ''Blessing of Knowledge'' as model for this (on a side note, doubling the proficiency bonus would become way too much at higher levels, considered how I planned to use the dance/performance skill for this concept, so I just opted for advantage). However, given that apparently performance is just one skill, I may simply grant the Sword Dancer proficiency in it, and advantage to all its rolls. I think that losing proficiency with shields and medium armor ''balances out'' with gaining proficiency with swords and a musical instrument, and receiving one less bonus skill than with ''Blessing of Knowledge'' balances out with gaining a cantrip. This way, the 1st level feature of Eilistraee's domain shouldn't be too loaded. So, would this be ok?

GAINS: proficiency in one musical instrument; proficiency in longswords, shortswords, rapiers, scimitars, greatswords; and proficiency in the performance skills. Gains advantage to all performance rolls.
LOSES: proficiency in shields and medium armor.

About the cantrip: yes, drow already have it, that's why I thought about using the 2e writeup for Eilistraee's Moonfire. Alternatively, drow could be able to choose another bonus cantrip.

I can see that swapping casting stats could be confusing to some, I thought about it because the Sword Dancers of Eilistraee basically are a bard-cleric hybrid, so DEX and CHA saves, and CHA as casting stat seemed to fit nicely. It would also allow the player to concentrate on fewer stats (since this cleric relies on almost all of them).

Eilistraee's Dance
I will change the part about granting the mobile feat to what you suggested. About the math, initially I wanted to do just what you suggested, but I was also aiming to give somewhat of a feel to this skill, i.e. that any combat abilities gained by the Sword Dancer during their performance were directly tied to how well they danced (on a side note, the bonus that I wrote ranges from a little more than +3 average with CHA=16 and proficiency=2, to about a little less than +6 average, with CHA=18 and proficiency=6). That said, is it worth the (a little bit) more complicated math?

Singing Sword
Yes, I modeled this feature after the Divine Strike one. I included advantage against charm effects because, going with the 2e take on this, Sword Dancers can be of any race. But yes, I think that I'll make it as you suggest. I was worried that using a d6 (instead of a d4) plus the defensive ability would make it a tad too strong, if compared to Divine Strike.

Sword of the Dark Maiden
I'll make it so that, once per long rest, expending a bonus action, the Sword Dancer can animate her sword, command it to attack once per round (using the cleric's bonuses) and move up to 30 feet (while however remaining within 30 feet from the Sword Dancer). If the priestess gets hit by an attack, and the sword is within 5 feet from her, the attack can be parried as I described before.
How long could this effect last, in order to not make it broken, but not underwhelming either?

 

[Duan'duliir]

Thank you for the feedback!
1st level
About the Performance skill: I chose to give advantage to the performance rolls because I was using ''Blessing of Knowledge'' as model for this (on a side note, doubling the proficiency bonus would become way too much at higher levels, considered how I planned to use the dance/performance skill for this concept, so I just opted for advantage). However, given that apparently performance is just one skill, I may simply grant the Sword Dancer proficiency in it, and advantage to all its rolls. I think that losing proficiency with shields and medium armor ''balances out'' with gaining proficiency with swords and a musical instrument, and receiving one less bonus skill than with ''Blessing of Knowledge'' balances out with gaining a cantrip. This way, the 1st level feature of Eilistraee's domain shouldn't be too loaded. So, would this be ok?

I don't believe that that would be a problem. I just forgot advantage when typing that up.

GAINS: proficiency in one musical instrument; proficiency in longswords, shortswords, rapiers, scimitars, greatswords; and proficiency in the performance skills. Gains advantage to all performance rolls.
LOSES: proficiency in shields and medium armor.

About the cantrip: yes, drow already have it, that's why I thought about using the 2e writeup for Eilistraee's Moonfire. Alternatively, drow could be able to choose another bonus cantrip.

It would need some tweaking to fit in 5e if you did go with moonfire. I think it may be better to go with that then making drow have to pick something else though.

I can see that swapping casting stats could be confusing to some, I thought about it because the Sword Dancers of Eilistraee basically are a bard-cleric hybrid, so DEX and CHA saves, and CHA as casting stat seemed to fit nicely. It would also allow the player to concentrate on fewer stats (since this cleric relies on almost all of them).

It could potentially be an optional variant, so players can choose to stick to the original cleric casting stat or take on Charisma as their casting stat.

Eilistraee's Dance
I will change the part about granting the mobile feat to what you suggested. About the math, initially I wanted to do just what you suggested, but I was also aiming to give somewhat of a feel to this skill, i.e. that any combat abilities gained by the Sword Dancer during their performance were directly tied to how well they danced (on a side note, the bonus that I wrote ranges from a little more than +3 average with CHA=16 and proficiency=2, to about a little less than +6 average, with CHA=18 and proficiency=6). That said, is it worth the (a little bit) more complicated math?

Perhaps rather than just giving the Charisma (Performance) modifier, giving how much they succeed a DC 15 check by (i.e if they have CHA 16 and prof 2 and roll a 12 for a total of 17, they get a +2 modifier). DC may need tweaking. It may just be my players, but they don't want anything more complex then that.

Singing Sword
Yes, I modeled this feature after the Divine Strike one. I included advantage against charm effects because, going with the 2e take on this, Sword Dancers can be of any race. But yes, I think that I'll make it as you suggest. I was worried that using a d6 (instead of a d4) plus the defensive ability would make it a tad too strong, if compared to Divine Strike.

I didn't realise there were no racial restrictions on this (The wiki link you provided indicated otherwise - elves and half-elves only, essentially), so go ahead and leave the charm there. d6 may be too powerful, but the only way to find out is to test the subclass alongside another cleric.

Sword of the Dark Maiden
I'll make it so that, once per long rest, expending a bonus action, the Sword Dancer can animate her sword, command it to attack once per round (using the cleric's bonuses) and move up to 30 feet (while however remaining within 30 feet from the Sword Dancer). If the priestess gets hit by an attack, and the sword is within 5 feet from her, the attack can be parried as I described before.
How long could this effect last, in order to not make it broken, but not underwhelming either?

Well, comparing it to a Dancing Sword, which has a rarity of very rare, and doesn't have the parry, and the fact that this is a level 17 feature, I would suggest that 4 rounds would be about right. That way, they aren't complaining that the dancing sword that was found in dungeon loot at level 11 dances for longer, but also makes it not incredibly better because you can have it parry for ages. 4 rounds might be too short, but definitely no less than 4 rounds.
Alternatively, you could tie it to their spellcasting ability so if they have a wisdom of 18 (if they use wisdom for spellcasting) they get 4 rounds, but with a wisdom of 20, it lasts 5 rounds. Subbing in charisma rather than wisdom if they use charisma of course

 

[Irennan]

I don't believe that that would be a problem. I just forgot advantage when typing that up.
It would need some tweaking to fit in 5e if you did go with moonfire. I think it may be better to go with that then making drow have to pick something else though.

How does this sound:

Eilistraee's Moonfire
Casting time: 1 action
Components: V, S
Range: Self
Duration: 10 minutes.

This spell creates a globe of moonlight of up to 10 cubic feet, that moves about the caster's body. It provides bright light in a 10 feet radius, and dim light for an additional 10 feet. The caster may choose to reduce the intensity, making the globe shed dim light in 10 feet radius. The color of the globe and of the light can be white, silver, blue-white and soft green.
Each round, as a bonus action, the caster may command the Moonfire to move around her body at any desired speed, or to move away from her, drifting up to 40 feet. As a part of the action, the shape of the globe can be changed to make it pass through openings of any size.

The ''per caster level'' rule doesn't really belong to 5e as far as I can see, so I just made it 10.

It could potentially be an optional variant, so players can choose to stick to the original cleric casting stat or take on Charisma as their casting stat.

Yes, good idea, I think I'll do just that.

Perhaps rather than just giving the Charisma (Performance) modifier, giving how much they succeed a DC 15 check by (i.e if they have CHA 16 and prof 2 and roll a 12 for a total of 17, they get a +2 modifier). DC may need tweaking. It may just be my players, but they don't want anything more complex then that.

Dividing is needed to not make the bonus go through the roof at higher level. You may propose to just increase the DC, but doing that to a point where the bonus is +5/+6 at high levels, will make the check very hard at lower levels (it will average to a little bit less than +1 with DC 18, for example).

2d20 drop lowest gives about 14 (13.8) on average, so, considering low, middle and high levels, the average performance roll would be:
(CHA 16 and prof. 2) 19
(CHA 17 and prof. 4) 21
(CHA 18 and prof. 6) 24

With a DC of 18, the bonus would be something like:
(CHA 16 and prof. 2) +1
(CHA 17 and prof. 4) +4
(CHA 18 and prof. 6) +6

I could say that it cannot go below +2 (in order to make the skill satisfying even at low levels, since +1 on average is rather underwhelming), or make the DC go up with levels, but wouldn't it feel a bit weird? That's why I used the original math to deliver the feel that I wanted from this ability.

I didn't realise there were no racial restrictions on this (The wiki link you provided indicated otherwise - elves and half-elves only, essentially), so go ahead and leave the charm there. d6 may be too powerful, but the only way to find out is to test the subclass alongside another cleric.

Yeah, the wiki is updated to the ''present time''. The situation looks like this: in 2e there was no racial restriction; in 3e they added it; in 4e Eilistraee was apparently killed and there was no info on her; in 5e Eilistraee has returned to life, but WotC hasn't given any restriction for her clergy (not yet, at least), and the wiki still has the 3e status quo for that (not having any other info). However, for this cleric concept, I preferred to not have racial restrictions (this goddess also is about acceptance, after all).

Well, comparing it to a Dancing Sword, which has a rarity of very rare, and doesn't have the parry, and the fact that this is a level 17 feature, I would suggest that 4 rounds would be about right. That way, they aren't complaining that the dancing sword that was found in dungeon loot at level 11 dances for longer, but also makes it not incredibly better because you can have it parry for ages. 4 rounds might be too short, but definitely no less than 4 rounds.
Alternatively, you could tie it to their spellcasting ability so if they have a wisdom of 18 (if they use wisdom for spellcasting) they get 4 rounds, but with a wisdom of 20, it lasts 5 rounds. Subbing in charisma rather than wisdom if they use charisma of course

Tying it to the spellcasting ability bonus sounds good, rather than coming up with an arbitrary number.

Thanks again for your help

 

[Duan'duliir]

The cantrip looks rather good, but might need to have that 1st sentence reworded a little bit - I had to reread it several times to understand what was said. (Removing "of the size" should suffice)

Setting a minimum could work, but if you want to make the boost not too big, a that seems to be your primary concern, is saying it cannot exceed your spellcasting ability modifier (minimum +2). Of course, if your spellcasting modifier is less than +2, it automatically locks the bonus at +2. Potentially setting a maximum bonus not tied to your ability modifier might be a better idea.

 

[Irennan]

What about this:

Channel Divinity (Eilistraee's Dance)
As a bonus action, the Sword Dancer can choose to perform a graceful battle-dance.

• Her movement speed is increased by 10 feet, and she never triggers opportunity attacks.
• She must take a Performance check, gaining a bonus to her AC, attack and DEX saving throw rolls equal to the result of the check minus 16. This can never be lower than 1, or higher than 5 plus her CHA bonus.

For each use of the Channel Divinity feature, the Sword Dancer can benefit of this effect for a number of rounds equal to her CHA bonus. Each round after the first, she can choose to take another Performance check and must keep the new result, even if worse than the former one. Additionally, in order to perform this dance, she must be wielding a sword and not using any shield.

With those limits, the average bonus should range from somewhat more than +3 at low levels, to around +6 at high levels.

 

[Duan'duliir]

That seems pretty good