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5E: Fifth Edition Monster Variants Inspired by Fourth Edition Sources

Cleon

Legend
Ok working through these. All suggestions sound good. How's this then?

I rough-drafted my proposals in the Enworld Derro Chaos Savant:

Derro Chaos Savant
Small humanoid (derro), chaotic evil
Armor Class 16 (armor of the insane) ?
Hit Points
99 (18d6 + 36) ?

Speed 30 ft.

STR​
DEX​
CON​
INT​
WIS​
CHA​
9 (–1)​
15 (+2)​
14 (+2)​
16 (+3)​
7 (–2)?
18 (+4)​

Saving Throws [It really needs a boost to its WIS saves, so I'd either give it Double Proficiency or mad insight ? for WIS +4]
Skills Arcana [+8 double proficiency?], [Perception +1 (Prof), +3/+2 ([mad insight A/B) or +6/+5 (Mad Prof) ?], Stealth +5
Senses Darkvision 120 ft., passive Perception 9/11/12/13/15/16
Languages Dwarvish, Undercommon
Challenge 5 (1,800 XP) ?Proficiency Bonus +3 ?


Armor of the Insane. The derro chaos savant's AC can't be less than 16 [?], regardless of what kind of armor it is wearing.

Mad Insight A. The derro chaos savant uses its Charisma modifier to make WIS saving throws and Perception skill checks whenever that is better than its Wisdom modifier.

Mad Insight B. The derro chaos savant uses its Charisma modifier to make WIS saving throws and its Intelligence modifier to make Perception skill checks whenever that is better than its Wisdom modifier.

Magic Resistance. The derro chaos savant has advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects.


Innate Spellcasting. The derro chaos savant's spellcasting ability Is Charisma (spell save DC 15). The chaos savant can innately cast the following spells, requiring only verbal components:
  • At will: mage hand, message, prestidigitation [plus more?]
  • 2/day each: invisibility, sleep, spider climb
  • 1/day each: dimension door, slow
Sunlight Sensitivity. While in sunlight, the derro chaos savant has disadvantage on attack rolls, as well as on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight.

Actions

Multiattack. The derro chaos savant makes three attacks using any combination of chaos staff, bolt of chaos and mind scourge.

Chaos Staff. Melee Spell Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 3 (1d6) bludgeoning damage plus 10 (3d6) damage of a random type (roll d4: 1=necrotic, 2=poison, 3=cold, 4=lightning).
Note: [maybe add the same special effects as its Bolts of Chaos to this attack?


Bolt of Chaos. Ranged Spell Attack: +7 to hit, range 120 ft., one target. Hit: 14 (4d6) damage of a random type (roll d4: 1=necrotic, 2=poison, 3=cold, 4=lightning) and the target must make a DC 15 Constitution saving throw. If they fail, the target suffers a special effect that depends on the bolt's damage type:
  • Necrotic Damage: Target can't regain hit points until the start of the chaos savant's next turn.
  • Poison Damage: Target is poisoned until the start of the chaos savant's next turn.
  • Cold Damage: Target's speed is reduced by 10 feet until the start of the chaos savant's next turn.
  • Lightning Damage: Target can't take reactions until the start of the target's next turn.
Mind Scourge. The chaos savant targets one creature within 60 feet, who must make a DC 15 Intelligence saving throw or take 10 (3d6) psychic damage; at the start of the target's next turn it must choose to be stunned or take a further 10 (3d6) psychic damage.
Note: I'd rewrite Mind Scourge to do some damage on a failed save.

Window to Madness. ???.
 ???.


Bonus Actions

Dance of Madness. ???.

Strength of Madness (Recharges After a Short Rest). ???.



Description

???.
 ???.
Subsection. ???.
 ???.

Subsection. ???.
 ???.


(Inspired by the Derro Savant in 4th Edition's Monster Manual 3 (2010).)

Wouldn't include "Will of Madness" (which is "Mad Insight" in my version) as substituting CHA for STR with the Chaos Staff.

I was thinking of making the Staff a magic implement, so the Savant uses its Spellcasting to-hit with it and it does statless damage like a spell.

My other idea was giving Strength of Madness a worthwhile duration/frequency and use that to give its Chaos Staff a decent chance of hitting & doing damage.

The 4E Derro Savant has a good chance of hitting with its Scourge (the equivalent to our boy's Staff), as it has a +21 to hit in melee and is a Level 16 Controller. Its Mind Scourge ranged attack is +19.
 

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Casimir Liber

Adventurer
Oh, and isn't this "derrosavant3" rather than "derrosavant2" now?
was being lazy saving screenshots...

ok, will change back to "Mad Insight" - just pondering if dndbeyond will be too clunky in statblock format - i.e. I don't think there is any way to put a proviso or footnote in the statblock about substituting CHA for WIS, or is a note in the traits section enough.

Aslo tweaked

Mind Scourge. The chaos savant targets one creature within 60 feet, who takes 10 (3d6) psychic damage, and must make a DC 16 Intelligence saving throw or choose to be stunned or take a further 10 (3d6) psychic damage the next turn.

Strength of Madness (Recharge 4-6). The chaos savant imbues preternatural strength into its melee weapon blows and doubles its attribute modifier in to hit and damage rolls.
 
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Cleon

Legend
ok, will change back to "Mad Insight" - just pondering if dndbeyond will be too clunky in statblock format - i.e. I don't think there is any way to put a proviso or footnote in the statblock about substituting CHA for WIS, or is a note in the traits section enough.

Do you prefer option A or B for the Mad Insight?

Aslo tweaked

Mind Scourge. The chaos savant targets one creature within 60 feet, who takes 10 (3d6) psychic damage, and must make a DC 16 Intelligence saving throw or choose to be stunned or take a further 10 (3d6) psychic damage the next turn.

Hmm, I'd prefer…

Mind Scourge. The chaos savant targets one creature within 60 feet, who takes 10 (3d6) psychic damage and must make a DC 15 Intelligence saving throw. If the save fails, then at the start of the target's next turn it must choose between taking an additional further 10 (3d6) psychic damage or being stunned until the end of their turn.​

A bit wordier but clearer.

For Strength of Madness, I was thinking of taking a different approach, like so:

Strength of Madness (Recharges After Short Rest.). Until the end of the chaos savant's turn, all the savant's melee attacks have advantage on rolls to hit and inflict an additional # (#d#) damage.​

That's seems more in keeping with the original version.

We'll need to decide how much the bonus damage is. I was thinking maybe 3 (1d6), 5 (2d4) or 7 (2d6) but it partially depends on the frequency.

If you want to make it Recharge 4-6 I'd recommend giving it a lower damage boost than if it was Recharge After a Short Rest since it'll add the possibility of it kicking off multiple times.

Don't care as much for the proposal above, since (a) it doesn't have a duration stated. Is it only for the next attacks? Every attack during the encounter? and (b) doubling the modifier for to hit and damage feels too "swingey" as it could either be overpowered (if it's CHA-based that's +8 to hit and damage instead of +4) or worse than useless (if it's using a regular STR-based weapon as its STR modifier is negative 1!).
 

Casimir Liber

Adventurer
The main reason I like a recharge as it is more random and in keeping with the derro's random/chaotic nature, so maybe a recharge 5-6 for x damage roll only?
 

Cleon

Legend
The main reason I like a recharge as it is more random and in keeping with the derro's random/chaotic nature, so maybe a recharge 5-6 for x damage roll only?

Fine. I can go along with Recharge 5-6. We just need to figure out what amount of extra damage would be appropriate, and that's a simple matter of keeping its DPR within the target Challenge Rating.
 


Cleon

Legend
I get CR 6 right now without any strength of madness


It remains pr 6 - if recharges on 5-6 but shifts into CR 7 with recharge 4-6 (with + 4 damage)

I get Challenge 6 with a +1d8 damage Strength of Madness with either 4-6 or 5-6 recharge. The difference to the DPR is only 2¼, remember.

Although that's not allowing for the advantage on the attack rolls. I've tried checking various "advantage on attack" features on the CR Calculator and the rarely triggered ones like Ambusher and Pack Tactics keep it at CR 6, Blood Frenzy makes it CR 7.

The Calculator seems to figure it out by just boosting the to hit: those first two features give +1 apiece (so an Ambushing Pack Hunter has +2 in total), while the Blood Frenzied one gets a whopping +4!

I'd eyeball it as being roughly par for a +2, which is still Challenge 6 (2,300 XP).

However, we've not factoring in the special effects of its Bolts, Staff* and Mind Scourge as well as its useful spells like slow and invisibility.

Throwing them all together, and it might be edging into Challenge 7 (2,900 XP).

*Assuming we give its Chaos Staff blows the same special effects as its Bolts of Chaos like I suggest.
 

Cleon

Legend
Anyhow, shall we give it the Recharge 4-6 and +1d8 Strength of Madness, only give its Bolts of Chaos the special effects, set it at Challenge 6 and call it a day?

Once we have the Description worked out, of course!

Oh, and will we be using Mad Insight A or Mad Insight B?
 


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