5e GMs - Why or Why Not Wandering Treasure?

[Sadras]

Yup. We have played games with lot less bits lot less chargen focus on fiddly bits... was fun... but if we gonna buy into fiddly bits and "building in that sense, we dont wait it resolved by fiat, secret behind the screen fiat at that.

"Choose rules you want to play" seems so obvious.

So fiat everywhere else but combat. We have differing styles - no problem.

 

[Sadras]

Worth noting that you did this on a one-time (I assume) basis because it was a special occasion and due to that you needed something truly memorable right now. Cool!

Pretty much.

It's when this on-the-fly tinkering happens every session it becomes a problem.

Agreed.

 

[Sadras]

I myself am a fan of (and recommend for GMs unfamiliar with the balance elements such as conversions they are inexperienced with) to use what 5e calls "extended encounters" as the base setup as often as possible. these allow for waves to come in in rapid succession and if the Gm is unfamiliar and wants to cover his bases he can have the setup be one where "how soon does the next waves get there" and "how many waves show up as opposed to hold their positions awaiting orders" fall within the realm of GM option for NPC choices. these also tend to provide opportunities for the PCs to see the way things are going and adjust as well in ways that "everything on the table" sometimes do not.

Interesting. How do you envision that this is done without it being on the fly or falling to the whim of the DM?
Remember you referred to this as the encounter base setup that must be done as often as possible.

Does the DM adjudicate during combat the strength of the party and then decide, right they blew that last wave away - I can now double the critters for the next wave....or I overestimated the PCs, they were too weak, so I'm going to only let the next wave get here in 3 rounds?

It is a good thing the DM doesn't decide when they fall, right?

How is this any different to a hit point boost? Don't tell me, I got it. It's because it falls within the realm of GM option for NPC choices. So similar to my no one is the wiser comment which you had soooooo much to say about. Grief!

 

[5ekyu]

So fiat everywhere else but combat. We have differing styles - no problem.

We do indeed.

 

[S'mon]

No I don't use wandering treasure, mainly because I still love the exploration pillar of the game more than anything (especially indoor), and therefore I like stretching it... and a good way to stretch it, is to have the player characters deal with the details: to let them think where and how they want to search for things they are looking for (treasure, traps, hidden doors...).

I don't think I use wandering treasure, for this reason. I don't have the Armour of Bondorr show up in a random chest the PC just happened to open.

I have the Armour of Bondorr show up worn by the death knight corpse-revenant of the last PC to get hold of it, luring the new PC into a trap to kill him & take his stuff. (True Story, Bro!)

 

[5ekyu]

Interesting. How do you envision that this is done without it being on the fly or falling to the whim of the DM?
Remember you referred to this as the encounter base setup that must be done as often as possible.

Does the DM adjudicate during combat the strength of the party and then decide, right they blew that last wave away - I can now double the critters for the next wave....or I overestimated the PCs, they were too weak, so I'm going to only let the next wave get here in 3 rounds?

It is a good thing the DM doesn't decide when they fall, right?

How is this any different to a hit point boost? Don't tell me, I got it. It's because it falls within the realm of GM option for NPC choices. So similar to my no one is the wiser comment which you had soooooo much to say about. Grief!

thank you so very much for taking this tact. It spotlights such a marvelous difference between our perspectives.

As you choose to ignore in the post your excepted i specifically called out "these also tend to provide opportunities for the PCs to see the way things are going and adjust as well..."

See, nothing at all in my position prevent you from having added to your dragon before the fight began "has the ability to heal themselves doing abc with cost xyc etc etc etc blah blah blah."

Just like in my setups the potential arrival of waves and sentries and so forth are there.

The difference is that i as Gm establish within the game prior to the event (not just in my write-ups) the waves, the possibilities not just as "maybes" but as "real and present threats" and so the characters can plan for and adapt to these. They know there are more goblins at other posts, some might be on the way, some might be turning and running, some might be looting the treasure room while boss gets killed etc etc etc. Matter of fact any and all of those might have been foreshadowed or made a part of the pre-event play - rumors of goblins cutting deals, swarms overruning intruders while the intruders got tied down, etc etc etc.

Its an engaged part of the gameplay and the in-game fiction that i as Gm can put right there in the foreground and the players characters can interact with.

Same vein i could have had the dragon self-curing be just as much a part of the pre-event or something shown in play that again allows the character to react and adapt to - maybe one character shifts to chill touch to keep the beast from curing or maybe other forms of "counter-healing at their disposal or maybe there were rumors that allowed the PCs to try and bring to the fight some counters to that healing.

In other words, the waves and the dragon's legendary healing are not treated as a secret behind the scenes "no one the wiser" element but an actual in-game element to be engaged.

Thats different from the "behind the screen i just change his HP to keep it going" by orders of magnitude.

I mean, if the Gm goal is **actually** massive awesome send off - what is more massively awesome - a hidden change to Hp nobody knows about and effort is made to hide from everyone *or* a known exceptional feature of the adversary they have to work/plan to overcome and do manage to do so?


Sorry but for me when i opt in for "raising the awesome" my go-to is not "stuff the players will never know and their characters have no ability to engage with." They actually seem to run counter to each other.

With just a little more effort that shows up in front of the screen you get a lot more awesome out of these things, in my experience.

As stated earlier, very different styles and approaches.

 

[5ekyu]

I don't think I use wandering treasure, for this reason. I don't have the Armour of Bondorr show up in a random chest the PC just happened to open.

I have the Armour of Bondorr show up worn by the death knight corpse-revenant of the last PC to get hold of it, luring the new PC into a trap to kill him & take his stuff. (True Story, Bro!)

To be perhaps clearer than i was at the start - i am not suggesting the wandering treasure be in place of intentionally placed treasures - tho it may be reason to reduce the value of some of those if "max loot output" is a metric in the game.

Just like having foraging be a roll for success in getting doesn't preclude there being stuff in the woods other than the rabbits and berries and so on - all it says is the check for indoors stuff found of value is handled much like the roll for outdoors stuff found. success equals got stuff not success equals found nothing with the DC being where the scarcity/circumstances is factored in.