D&D 5E 5e - Just Missing the Mark

[Azzy]

Yeah. I was hoping to avoid repurchasing them. And I'm always hesitant to write in books.

Post-It notes work.

 

[Azzy]

If you search around on the internet, there's a fan-made index for the PHB that is a vast improvement.

 

[Oofta]

And the hyperbolic complaint of the week goes to ... yet another complaint about the index!

Seriously, in the middle of the game I almost never look up rules. I go back and read up on some things now and then when I think they may come up, but in the middle of a game? Nah. But even if I do it's not the end of the world that I have to spend an extra 5 seconds looking up another entry. Heaven's to Betsy how shall we ever survive?

Out of all the things to complain about in 5E the endless, incessant complaints about having to do a page flip to get to the info as if it causes the entire structure of the universe (okay, my turn at hyperbole) has anything to do with the rest of the game is one of the indications to me that the game is actually pretty solid. If this is the worst thing you can complain about it can't be all that bad.

 

[Blue]

This index sucks worse then other D&D indexes because of the redirection. Soon after 5e came out someone came did an expanded index to print out and leave in the back of your book. Googling just now I see there's a bunch of them.

So yes, WotC really dropped the ball when it came to that index and hasn't fixed it even in later printings. But fans have stepped in and there's help if you want it.

 

[Retreater]

You must have not heard Rulings not Rules or missed all the RAW vs RAI threads.

This is true. I know it, as a DM. But my players tend to not frequent boards and read up on DM empowerment threads. When there are official rules in the books that you can't find, it's frustrating. If it were just a matter of making rules on the spot for obscure situations, I wouldn't be as annoyed.

 

[Retreater]

I don't know about your setting, but underwater combat does not come up often (I can't think of the last time it did, if ever)
the index definitely could use work

One was a homebrew adventure in the sewers, another was Forge of Fury (lots of water in the caves, there) and another in Tomb of Annihilation. Maybe just a fluke, but it's happened a bit recently.

 

[Sadras]

This is true. I know it, as a DM. But my players tend to not frequent boards and read up on DM empowerment threads.

So if you made a quick ruling in the heat of the moment, you would get lambasted by the players?

Just point them to part 3 in the DMG called Master of Rules or even its brief summation in the Introduction. They need to understand your role at the table. At the end of the day one of your jobs is to facilitate the mechanics between their characters' action declarations and the rules of the game, and sometimes this means making a quick situational ruling or establishing a house rule. Both of these, quick rulings and house rules, may be made with player input. Sometimes more heads are better than one.

 

[jasper]

harrumph harrumph
...Infuriatingly useless indexes have been in every book, since a smart indexer con themselves a job on the book editing staff.

 

[Retreater]

Your conclusion doesn't really flow from a complaint about the index or about a DM screen. Care to fill in step 2, there?

1. Complain abour index
2. ???
3. 5e is bad, mmkay

There are many symptoms, which I've noticed from running 3-4 simultaneous campaigns. Granted these latest nitpicky frustrations are just the most recent (from last night's game, when I made the post).
Here are more serious complaints I've accumulated:
1. A broken CR system that creates boring or impossibly deadly encounters in equal measure.
2. A poor selection of official adventures to showcase a variety of campaigns.
3. Monsters that don't properly fulfill roles (in combat or fluff)
4. Undercooked tactical combat options
5. "Move and swing sword, cause damage" standard of combat
6. Inspiration, backgrounds not meaningful
7. A boring sameness throughout the whole game (between classes, levels, and monsters)

 

[Retreater]

So if you made a quick ruling in the heat of the moment, you would get lambasted by the players?

Just point them to part 3 in the DMG called Master of Rules or even its brief summation in the Introduction. They need to understand your role at the table. At the end of the day one of your jobs is to facilitate the mechanics between their characters' action declarations and the rules of the game, and sometimes this means making a quick situational ruling or establishing a house rule. Both of these, quick rulings and house rules, may be made with player input. Sometimes more heads are better than one.

Yep. I've had some players buy the module after I ran it, write long emails saying "that's not the way the module said to handle the tactics" or "that's not the way some streamer" does it. While I try to correct this behavior, it's still very frustrating.
Definitive answers would help my personality type and give me a better leg to stand on against these players.