D&D 5E 5e Newbie - Tear Apart My Bad Build Ideas

[FrogReaver]

How often does Concentration get interrupted?

It really depends. Are you going into melee range? Do you have a good AC. A good Con score. Proficiency in Con saves? Warcaster or something similar for advantage on Concentration saves? Does the DM really try to casters?

Like a Ranger trying to TWF at level 1 with maybe 15 AC and +2 Con will have maybe a 15-20% chance per attack made against him to lose concentration. I don't like those odds on a front liner. For a back line Archer Ranger that's probably fine since you'll probably get attacked alot less.

 

[FrogReaver]

Is Spirit Guardians as good as I think it is? On paper it looks like a GREAT way to augment damage. 10 minute duration?

For a single classed Cleric, YES! It taking an action to cast, requiring a high slot level to maintain good damage later, and requiring nearly melee positioning means it's not nearly as effective of a multiclass tool for other casters or for martials.

 

[FrogReaver]

A few suggestions -

• Totem Barbarian with early Great Weapon Master feat works really well.
• Life Cleric that focuses on offensive spells/buffs and uses his channel divinity power to keep party members hp up.
• Light Cleric is one of the best blasters in the game. Channel Divinity for a 30ft area ally friendly AOE attack. Can also cast spiritual weapon on the same turn you use the channel divinity if desired. Gets Fireball and Spirit Guardians, which lets you really tailor your blasty spells to the scenario.
• Druids have a really solid spell list. Entangle is soo good. Note that it causes restrained and restrained gives your team advantage vs the enemies and the enemies disadvantage vs your team. Also makes any melee only enemies sitting ducks. Moonbeam is a very underrated offensive spell. Sometimes you can hit more than 1 enemy with it. It does really solid damage, does 1/2 damage on a passed save and if enemies don't run out of it you don't have to spend your action to move it, meaning you can cast a cantrip or whatever. Then there's Conjure Animals - and depending on how the DM runs that spell it can be one of the most powerful spells for a good portion of the game. Plant growth (not concentration) is a no save way of making any melee only enemies sitting ducks - won't always be the scenario but when it is the spell is stupid strong. Just highlighting a few of my Druid only favorites but there are many more great spells.
• Evoker Wizards. Sleep is almost too good for levels 1 and 2. Web is like an upgraded entangle. Shield spell gives you a great thing to spend your level 1 slots on later. Find Familiar (Owl) is a great ritual to give allies advantage sometimes (can die but fairly cheap to bring back). Then there's the amazing control spells like hypnotic pattern. Also Counterspell in the right campaign can make things so much easier. And in situations where all else fails, being able to put your allies in the middle of a fireball and not harm them is amazing. The great thing about Wizards is that their spell list just keeps getting better and better.

*Most casters should probably consider resilient Con at some point.

 

[aco175]

Welcome back, sounds like it might happen this time. I'm not a big build person, but have a few general things to think about. You may be the best player at the table in terms of experience and skill. This may mean that others will do silly things or look to you for guidance and help. They may also make more simple to run PCs that might be all they can handle for a new player. The 5e rules allow for a general easier time to play than prior editions and it is fine. You should also help the DM with the new players and table chores like tracking initiative if you can. It helps keep the DM on task of running the game and might help him to keep coming back and providing the game without fizzle in only a few weeks/months.

 

[VikingLegion]

Thanks guys. Those were some good breakdowns, even if they weren't quite what I was hoping to hear. I guess I didn't have a good grasp on the bonus action and it's limitations. I had envisioned a monk that could make up for some inherent weakness by getting a boatload of attacks per round augmented by spells, but that doesn't look possible. The choice between a Martial Arts attack or a Flurry of Blows seems pretty weak... I can spend my one and only bonus action to get another swing at 1d4 damage or I can spend a precious Ki to get two swings at 1d4 each. That feels... underwhelming. Especially since I can't add on a whack from a Spiritual Weapon (I was envisioning a giant ghostly fist) or the War domain bonus attack.

I still haven't quite abandoned the idea of this character, as the DM and I have already begun writing his backstory. He's a dragonborn (I know, terrible stats for a monk, but I'm waiting for the +2/+1 to any ability change to species) that is a member of a small niche monastic tradition called the Platinum Fist. They are martial artist/clerics of Bahamut the Platinum Dragon and combine mastery of their bodies as well as devotion to their deity to thwart the various schemes of Tiamat, the Cult of the Dragon, etc.

@mellored - I wasn't planning on wearing armor with him, he was going to function mostly like a monk, with a small amount of casting ability to add some flavor. It feels like the perks of the War domain will be largely lost on him, so maybe I'll look around at some other domains that might be a match with Bahamut (Light shows some promise) to see if anything fits thematically before I bail on this guy completely.

@FrogReaver (great name btw) - I wasn't going to rush into melee with him. I figured maybe I start off round one with a Guiding Bolt or Bless to help my tankier allies (or self-buff with Guardian Spirits), then move in the following round as more of a melee opportunist.

 

[VikingLegion]

@FrogReaver

1. I'd suggest taking one of the bard subclasses that grant extra attack at 6th level if you plan to regularly attack with a bow. Otherwise just drop the bow and fighter levels and take 2 levels of warlock (Eldritch Blast and Agonizing Blast will scale much better on your charisma focused bard - while feeling like a magic archer)

Oh wow I kinda LOVE the concept of a gloomy, angsty Goth bard who has sold his soul to a Great Old One in order to further his artistic career...

 

[Rabulias]

#2 THE SOHEI (Warrior-Monk)

Class: Monk with a Cleric dip
Subclass: Open Hand
Abilities: Dexterity and Wisdom
Feats: ???

I found the Mobile feat to be nice for monks -- lean into the "you move very fast" schtick. Plus, if you need to move past a couple of opponents, you don't need to spend your action or ki to disengage to avoid Opportunity Attacks -- just attack them on your way by.

 

[FrogReaver]

@FrogReaver


Oh wow I kinda LOVE the concept of a gloomy, angsty Goth bard who has sold his soul to a Great Old One in order to further his artistic career...

That’s a cool concept! Maybe one day the dm will bless him with some tentacles too.

 

[FrogReaver]

Starting with the most important takeaway - I think you are focusing on high levels too much, especially when most campaigns fizzle before they get there. Look for characters that will really start clicking by level 6 or 7 instead of characters that sounds really awesome just at level 20.

Honestly I think the character probably works better as a single classed monk. If you have alot of melee allies then open hand is great - also great if allies you zone spells that you can knock enemies into). If you have more ranged allies shadow is nice. (Pass without trace for party to have +10 stealth!, ability to give Darkvision to any allies without it when needed and then a mostly at will teleport option!!). Keep leveling monk for the KI and great high level monk abilities!

Thanks guys. Those were some good breakdowns, even if they weren't quite what I was hoping to hear. I guess I didn't have a good grasp on the bonus action and it's limitations. I had envisioned a monk that could make up for some inherent weakness by getting a boatload of attacks per round augmented by spells, but that doesn't look possible. The choice between a Martial Arts attack or a Flurry of Blows seems pretty weak... I can spend my one and only bonus action to get another swing at 1d4 damage or I can spend a precious Ki to get two swings at 1d4 each. That feels... underwhelming. Especially since I can't add on a whack from a Spiritual Weapon (I was envisioning a giant ghostly fist) or the War domain bonus attack.

I find Monk damage to be fine. High optimization with a few specific feats can really out shadow it, but in tier 1 (levels 1-3) using a quarterstaff versatile and then unarmed attacks does 1d8+3 + 1d4+3 = 13 damage. When you flurry that goes up to 18.5. Tack on 2-3 more damage at level 4 if you raise dex (which you probably should).

An EB warlock with hex in Tier 1 is just doing 1d10+3+1d6 = 12
=13 at level 4.

Tier 2 that comparison comes out to be more like
1d8+4+1d8+4+1d6+4 = 24.5
With flurry = 32

The warlock at this stage is doing
1d10+4+1d6+1d10+4+1d6 = 26

Flurry of blows isn't super strong on it's own, it's just more that ki is a relatively cheap resource and you get so much of it (assuming you get adequate short rests) that you can use 1 ki most turns fairly quickly.

*People think high level monk damage drops off offensively compared to other classes but that's just because they never consider the monks ability to grant advantage to himself or allies. Seriously, a stunning strike on your first attack can give you advantage on 3 more attacks (assuming you flurry of blows too) and your next 4 attacks (assuming you flurry of blows), not to mention your allies get advantage on their next attacks too.

I still haven't quite abandoned the idea of this character, as the DM and I have already begun writing his backstory. He's a dragonborn (I know, terrible stats for a monk, but I'm waiting for the +2/+1 to any ability change to species) that is a member of a small niche monastic tradition called the Platinum Fist. They are martial artist/clerics of Bahamut the Platinum Dragon and combine mastery of their bodies as well as devotion to their deity to thwart the various schemes of Tiamat, the Cult of the Dragon, etc.

Sounds cool. I'd see if the DM wouldn't go ahead an implement floating ASI's from race choice. It's a simple enough houserule. *Also the updated 2024 monk to come out later this year is looking better than the 2014 one as far as we can tell.

@mellored - I wasn't planning on wearing armor with him, he was going to function mostly like a monk, with a small amount of casting ability to add some flavor. It feels like the perks of the War domain will be largely lost on him, so maybe I'll look around at some other domains that might be a match with Bahamut (Light shows some promise) to see if anything fits thematically before I bail on this guy completely.

For your multiclass... Light for combat. Knowledge for out of combat. Tempest for runner up. That said, i wouldn't multiclass out of monk levels so much since they are so ki dependent and they are one of the few martials that get really good high level features. Maybe a 1 level dip?

@FrogReaver (great name btw) -

Thanks!

I wasn't going to rush into melee with him. I figured maybe I start off round one with a Guiding Bolt or Bless to help my tankier allies (or self-buff with Guardian Spirits), then move in the following round as more of a melee opportunist.

I like the thoughts here! A few caveats.

Guiding Bolt is great before extra attack but not great after you get extra attack. It might be marginally better than 2 shortbow attacks with +4 dex mod.

That said, bless, shield of faith, protection from good and evil are all great buff spells at level 1. Access to healing word is very useful as well. While I love spirit guardians, i don't think i would try to go the 5 levels required to put it on a monk (at least not till long after your campaign probably ended at level 11-12).

 

[VikingLegion]

@FrogReaver
I'm fairly confident that this campaign will go the long haul. We'll have a couple of brand new players (a wife and a fiancee), but the core of the group has played together in campaigns that have lasted as long as 6 years IRL time. Once we commit, we stay with it. Also the DM has been plotting this particular story since the mid 1990s, I remember him talking about it when we were teenagers working an after school job together. He's told me we'll likely hit 19 or 20 by the culmination.

That said, I look at the Monk and see level 14 as having the majority of the cool abilities - evasion, catching arrows, running across lakes or up vertical surfaces, self-clearing mind-influencing effects, immunity to poison/disease, great saves against all types - most of the heavy hitters I associate with monkdom. Timeless Body at 15 seems nice, but only if we get attacked by a ton of ghosts maybe? By stopping at 14 all I lose out on is 1-2 martial arts damage (d8 increase to d10 at 17), 5' more movement (25' to 30' at 18), 6 Ki points (ok, that hurts a bit), 2 ASI (but I'll get one back if I devote 4+ levels to another class), Empty Body, and Perfect Self. Those are pretty good abilities, but putting 5 of those 6 levels into a caster class would net level 3 spells and open up some really fun variety I think. The alternative would be Monk 17 with 3 caster levels to open up level 2 spells... that's worth considering too.

I'm sure you're likely right and the single-class Monk all the way would be more optimized... But I'm looking at this as almost certainly the final time I'll get to play in a D&D group and I want to go out with a fun and memorable character that has a lot of interesting options.