D&D 5E [5e] QL's Al-Qadim Game

[Thateous]

1) If 5e presented any real reason to horde gold i'd be more than happy to build a caravan as a player. Akilah however cares not for material things. Hence my issue finding magic items appropriate for her.

2) Prefer just simple dc checks for monster knowlege but would prefer exclusive knowlege for those actually trained in the required skill.

3) Have to agree with Shayuri on political intrigue aspect possible only with high level play.

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[VLAD the Destroyer]

1) I like kingdom building and planning in that manner but in PbP it is hard due to the pace of the games. Doing really minute planning on a caravan could take months of real-time as everything is planned out IC. In this setting less planning will get the story moving faster. However Salahuddin has no care for material wealth and would have little desire to gather and outfit a caravan. But if others want to get that granular I am fine going that route.

2) I agree with the others on this. Setting up DC checks for valid knowledge IC is preferred. I like how you have done it in this last exchange with DC checks and knowledge the PC can know. I also like the consequences for low rolls which makes rolling those checks a choice if you are not proficient in the skill. I also like that you enabled me to use Arcana to get some information even though you did not call for such a check initially.

3) I agree that political intrigue and plane spanning conflict are two things that work better at higher levels. At lower levels conflicts are much more local. The fun of high level play is conflict and adventures that have kingdom and world wide consequences.

 

[Shayuri]

I'll add that Ankabut probably wouldn't deal much with caravan prep and supply IC. I like that kind of thing OOC (Stronghold Builder's Guide is still one of my favorite 3.x books ), but it's not something she would deal with herself unless she had good reason to.

Her 'stronghold' would probably wind up being the orphanage she contributes to/wants to set up.

 

[Jago]

1) Caravan. How important is it to you to plan your own caravan? I'm trying to suss out how much detail you all want in this regard. Do you want to get into purchasing camels/supplies/hirelings? Do you want it GM-handwaved? Or something in between?

I'm in agreement with Foxbytes here: I generally dislike "Army Building", especially in a Lawrence Of Arabia style game. I don't need to know how the Bedouin are getting their camels, bullets, and explosives. All that matters is DAMASCUS!

If others would like more specific things, I understand that, but otherwise I would be totally fine with it just being handwaved that our Writ just allows us the purchase of supplies/hirelings/whatever else is deemed necessary. I, myself, would be fine if our "Caravan" were just Us: we're hunting Raiders, not looking to be targets ourselves with a large party.

Besides that, our Viziers can probably just request aid as necessary, and as a Mamluk and Al-Badia, I could probably also rustle up some soldiers or desert riders wherever we roam.

2) Monster Lore. How would you like to handle monster knowledge checks? We can range anywhere from... "No checks, just player knowledge", letting you all flex your considerable D&D monster lore since you're playing 11th PCs? Or codifying monster knowledge checks to specific skills by monster types like 3e/4e? Or something in between? Or something more indie feeling?

So here is where I reveal that I literally only started the Hobbie in like 2012 or so, and D&D wasn't even my first game. My considerable Monster Lore is limited to the basics (Chromatic Dragons are probably bad, Giants are big, sometimes there's a giant bird named a Roc that can eat Giants), so relying on Player Knowledge is going to leave me in the dark real quick.

An idea? Can we make it maybe based on Passive Checks (10+Skill)? And if that is not enough to know about something, then we can roll? Or maybe just based upon backgrounds as well? Like, Kaniel would probably know about the creatures of The High Desert, Najiyah and Salahuddin would know things about Elementals and Genies, etc.?

3) High-Level Play. This is an open-ended question, but are there any aspects of "high-level play" that you'd like to include? This could be certain themes/motifs/adversaries you'd like to include. Or it could be strongholds & followers. Or it could be "more of the same adventuring like at low-level, just with bigger stakes." Or anything else that strikes your fancy.

I'm not sure that this particular story so far feels like a Strongholds & Followers kind of story ... We're chasing raiders and genies and an evil cult, not building bases and amassing an army. Again, I am totally approaching this from a Swords & Sorcery Style Epic, the legends of Sinbad and such: the tight-knit crew, the terrifying monsters, the lands of ethereal beauty, the magic and adventure. This is what I signed up for, to encounter strange, wondrous things in the serenity and heat of The Desert.

 

[Shayuri]

Jago makes some really good points. I just want to chime in to say that while I often enjoy those exercises, they're definitely not right for every game. I don't miss them when they're absent.

 

[Quickleaf]

Thanks for the great feedback! I love playing with folks who know what they want

Quick summary of where everybody stands in respect to the 3 questions...

[SECTION]1) Caravan
Shayuri - detail, but wants rules support (and not in-character)
Jago - DM handwaving
Foxbytes - DM handwaving
Thateous - interested in detail, but doesn’t see 5e supporting it
VLAD - DM handwaving

2) Monster Lore
Shayuri - knowledge checks
Jago - passive knowledge checks
Foxbytes - knowledge checks
Thateous - trained knowledge checks
VLAD - knowledge checks

3) High-Level Play
Shayuri - political intrigue
Jago - Sword and Sorcery magic and adventure
Foxbytes - Sword and Sorcery magic and adventure
Thateous - political intrigue
VLAD - political intrigue / planar[/SECTION]

Here's what I'm thinking... If anything I propose is very unappealing to anyone, please speak up and we'll figure out a way to make it work better...

1) Caravan. I'm mostly going to handwave planning the caravan / resource management (e.g. you don't need to think about tracking rations and water). All I'll need to know from you are the broadstrokes. Are you taking spare mounts? Are you going alone with just your party or with hirelings? Do you bother creating a "cover story" or are you very clearly a party of adventurers with two viziers of Tajar?

2) Monster Lore. It sounds like I'll be doing something similar to what I did with the current monster lore check, focusing on preserving your areas of specialty. Rather than anything hard-and-fast it'll be based on your character backstories, DM discernment, and skill checks.

3) High-Level Play. It sounds like you want to keep the focus on your party without getting into follower/stronghold stuff. You'd like for it to feel like Sword and Sorcery magic and adventure, not getting bogged down in details or tracking whose army or spies are where. At the same time, you'd like to explore the political intrigues specific to the Al-Qadim setting.

 

[Foxbytes]

Sounds pretty good to me. For my part, I feel whether or not a game includes the panorama view of what is happening globally with armies and such is very dependent upon the setting, e.g. Game of Thrones would be a perfect setting for that. I think this setting has great potential for tracking armies too. But to continue the song of ice and fire example, what makes it so enthralling is the individual character stories that are wrapped up in the multi kingdom war.

I have no objections to having a stronghold story, but I'm still a little confused as to what is being asked. Why would we ever play a game of D&D that isn't about adventurers and adventuring? We have Risk or Monopoly if we wanted to play a game of only strategy and empires.

I apologize if I'm being obtuse, I just want to make sure I fully understand what this question is asking so I don't inadvertently close off an option posed to us that I wasn't aware we had...

 

[Quickleaf]

Sounds pretty good to me. For my part, I feel whether or not a game includes the panorama view of what is happening globally with armies and such is very dependent upon the setting, e.g. Game of Thrones would be a perfect setting for that. I think this setting has great potential for tracking armies too. But to continue the song of ice and fire example, what makes it so enthralling is the individual character stories that are wrapped up in the multi kingdom war.

I have no objections to having a stronghold story, but I'm still a little confused as to what is being asked. Why would we ever play a game of D&D that isn't about adventurers and adventuring? We have Risk or Monopoly if we wanted to play a game of only strategy and empires.

I apologize if I'm being obtuse, I just want to make sure I fully understand what this question is asking so I don't inadvertently close off an option posed to us that I wasn't aware we had...

"Strongholds and followers" is a style of high-level play that came out of older editions of D&D where, for example, a character might gain a bunch of followers around 9th-level. That style of play was in addition to the regular adventuring stuff. It's not that you'd stop doing normal adventuring stuff, but that there'd be a bit less of that to make room for other things: building strongholds, amassing and commanding followers, managing realms/cities/guilds, etc. Typically it was associated with a longer/slower time scale than normal adventuring.

There's LOTS of options for implementing this sort of stuff in 5e... including things on DM's Guild / DriveThruRPG, well-designed homebrews on Reddit / Tumblr for strongholds & followers, Adventurer Conquerer King system, and simply adapting stuff from older editions.

So part of my open-ended question – what do you want in terms of high-level play for our game – is an attempt to suss out whether "strongholds and followers" is a style of play you guys want.

----

In case this is something completely alien to you, here's an example of what might constitute "strongholds and followers" style of play and how that's different from regular adventuring:

[SBLOCK=example]Having defeated the Burnt Mage in his desert redoubt, Kaniel calls upon the mamluks of the Valiant to help secure the fortress and surrounding region. While the party enjoys the treasure they've gained, they have decisions to make about their next move...

The Brotherhood will surely not let the defeat of one of their fortresses go without taking action. Ankabut, as a high ranking sister of the Soft Whisper, could entreat Grandmother to call on lesser sisters to determine the Brotherhood's next move...but such spycraft could jeopardize the lesser sisters' lives. Is the mission important enough to take that risk?

Having heard of their success, Sheikh Ali sends to his daughter Akilah that he wishes to move some of his desert riders from Tajar to make certain the PC's new stronghold is well defended. Akilah knows the Sheikh is concerned about rebellious jann tribes posing a threat, but a move to aggregate so much power could provoke the jann too. And to complicate matters the desert riders are a bit fanatically loyal to Akilah and the faith of Honest Hakiyah. What to do?

Najiyah, as a sorceress, feels keenly attuned to the ambient magic coursing through the stronghold. Perhaps it was this magic which confounded teleporting into the valley? She senses, and visions in her dreams confirm, that there may be a way to find the source of this strange magic (and even control it) deeper in the ruins of the stronghold. However, to reach those ruins will require investment in hirelings/magic to clear vast amounts of rubble and make sure the structure is safe. Is it worth it to invest in such expenses and time to find the source of the magic?

Additionally, an extraordinarily fickle djinni ambassador from the Citadel of Ice and Steel is announced to pay the PCs' a visit in three days time, and Salahuddin has his hands full trying to acquire all the right spices, rare fruits, downy bed cushions, and draperies that such a magnate of the djinn expects. However, there are unseemly facts turning up about this djinni ambassador. Does Salahuddin dig deeper into the ambassador's background using Easifa, Sinjin, divination magic, and subterfuge? Knowing that one slip up could offend the ambassador and ruin chances for support from the djinn?[/SBLOCK]

 

[Shayuri]

Another good example of fantasy RPG involving Strongholds would be the computer game Dragon Age Inquisition. You gain a fortress, and while a 'real' RPG like this would probably dispense with the mission structure serving it (mostly), the idea is that the fortress provides the characters with a seat of power. It forms the backbone of a lot of the roleplaying/diplomacy/political side of the game.

But there are many ways to have a 'stronghold' in a game. It doesn't have to be a literal stronghold. Anything that binds us to the setting and gives us responsibility and noncombat authority is a 'stronghold.' A merchant trading company. A thieves guild. Etc etc.

 

[Foxbytes]

I hadn't experienced or read about this style of game play, didn't realize I was so embarrassingly in the dark. Thank you for explaining that so thoroughly! I understand much better and stand with the original assessment of our preferences.