D&D 5E 5th edition artists need to watch Legend of Korra

[Libramarian]

Did you really just take an uplifting and independent female character modeled after a native Inuit and call them Kim Kardashian with blackface, one of the more damaging racist and derogatory things in America?

What exactly is unrealistic about it? The muscle tone? The skin color? The eye color? Have you ever seen the Avatar series? Are you aware she's basically the equivalent of Inuit?

More importantly, do you ever post anywhere and not have awful opinions?

I don't know anything about the show. This is honestly what I thought--this looks like a caucasian character painted brown. Which I don't think is good enough. If you're going to have art that is inclusive of different ethnicities, you have to actually make it look like those ethnicities, not just paint caucasian people different colors.

It's funny to me from the start that anyone would associate an anime character with inclusiveness. The style essentially fetishizes caucasian features.

 

[Mercutio01]

It's funny to me from the start that anyone would associate an anime character with inclusiveness. The style essentially fetishizes caucasian features.

I think that's nothing less than projection. If anything, anime fetishizes no features at all. Anime facial features, in general, are created solely to be as expressive as possible with the most minimal line strokes. Hence the big mouths when people yell, or the weird (to me) chibi features when characters feel shy or love.

In any case, Korra looks about as Caucasian as Chef from South Park. That is to say, not much at all.

 

[Hussar]

Perhaps, but any woman can be objectified, she doesn't have to show skin for it. We can objectify that woman in full-plate as much as the skeleton bikini.


So would I. But I don't consider every bit of skin to be cheesecake, as the post below yours points out, when we get away from the obvious "sexy armor" and start talking about people in leather, robes, or in classes whose roles typically rely on "face time", we get into much cloudier waters on what can be shown without becoming cheesecake.

I would say that objectifying a woman wearing full plate would be about as likely as objectifying a woman in an ankle length, high necked, three sizes too large, heavy wool dress. In other words, a bit of a stretch.

As far as the Deviantart stuff goes, let's not forget the source here. I do fully realize that anything that would go into a print product would have to be a LOT more polished before publication. I'm not talking about the art quality, but, as was mentioned before, I'm talking about the costuming and objectivisation of women.

Take a look a LOTR (the movie). Guess what, lots of very pretty women warriors (Eowyn comes to mind) all without cheesecake.

What's wrong with Eowyn as an inspiration for D&D art?

 

[Libramarian]

But the women in the art are not actual women with agency. They're made up people, created by the artist, drawn by the artist, put in the clothes the artist wants. And yes, there are women artists who draw women scantily clad. But how many fantasy artists are women? Rhetorical question, the answer is not many.

Modesty isn't the issue. Objectification is. A woman choosing to wear skimpy clothing in real life is not a problem, because it is her choice to wear that clothing. She made that choice of her own volition, with her adult brain. Which fantasy art women lack. Because they aren't real people.

Again, the women in fantasy art aren't actually choosing to wear chainmail bikinis. They can't choose to wear chainmail bikinis. Because they're not real. They're wank fodder for lonely nerds and horny 17 year olds. Sometimes both at the same time.

Have I repeated this enough times? They aren't real. They aren't choosing this. Other people are choosing this for them.

Are you really arguing that it is possible to exploit fictional people? Lol what is going on here. That doesn't make any sense.

 

[Alouicious]

I don't know anything about the show. This is honestly what I thought--this looks like a caucasian character painted brown. Which I don't think is good enough. If you're going to have art that is inclusive of different ethnicities, you have to actually make it look like those ethnicities, not just paint caucasian people different colors.

It's funny to me from the start that anyone would associate an anime character with inclusiveness. The style essentially fetishizes caucasian features.

You do know that Avatar is not an anime, it's a fully American produced show, right? And that you're ignoring all the other characters that look fully and unmistakably Asian. I'm pretty sure you're either just projecting or misinformed because the only "caucasian feature" I see present on Korra is large eyes, and even that's pretty shaky.

 

[Sunseeker]

I would say that objectifying a woman wearing full plate would be about as likely as objectifying a woman in an ankle length, high necked, three sizes too large, heavy wool dress. In other words, a bit of a stretch.

And yet, that is surprisingly one of the arguments for the burka.

As far as the Deviantart stuff goes, let's not forget the source here. I do fully realize that anything that would go into a print product would have to be a LOT more polished before publication. I'm not talking about the art quality, but, as was mentioned before, I'm talking about the costuming and objectivisation of women.

Both Steve Argyle and Keren Beyit are members of deviantart. The level of polish and objectification there is highly subjective to the artist in question.
kerembeyit on deviantART
SteveArgyle on deviantART

Take a look a LOTR (the movie). Guess what, lots of very pretty women warriors (Eowyn comes to mind) all without cheesecake.

What's wrong with Eowyn as an inspiration for D&D art?

True, but the goal of LOTR was to create a lot of interesting characters first, and interesting characters can come in a variety of forms. You point to LOTR, I can point to Conan. Fantasy involves cheesecake/beefcake, and I think it's a necessary evil to add levity and grab attention. I think it's a very needed theme, and it's certainly gone down over the years.

 

[Ettin]

It's funny to me from the start that anyone would associate an anime character with inclusiveness. The style essentially fetishizes caucasian features.

Japanese cartoons: Clearly all about white people.

 

[Libramarian]

I think that's nothing less than projection. If anything, anime fetishizes no features at all. Anime facial features, in general, are created solely to be as expressive as possible with the most minimal line strokes. Hence the big mouths when people yell, or the weird (to me) chibi features when characters feel shy or love.

In any case, Korra looks about as Caucasian as Chef from South Park. That is to say, not much at all.

I'm not criticizing Korra as artwork. I'm criticizing the image as it was proposed as particularly inclusive artwork. Chef from South Park is not presented as an inclusive character.

As for anime, I'm not convinced that the stylistic elements of anime developed purely because they're the most expressive. I think they developed in a postwar Japan being inundated with American culture as a pretty straightforward imitation of white people. At least that this was a factor.

Regardless of the reason for it, anime characters clearly do look surprisingly caucasian for its origin in a country with very few caucasians. So I think it's fundamentally problematic to use as a stylistic basis for inclusive artwork.

 

[Libramarian]

You do know that Avatar is not an anime, it's a fully American produced show, right? And that you're ignoring all the other characters that look fully and unmistakably Asian. I'm pretty sure you're either just projecting or misinformed because the only "caucasian feature" I see present on Korra is large eyes, and even that's pretty shaky.

I just said I don't know anything about the show.

 

[Alouicious]

I just said I don't know anything about the show.

Then why the are you trying to argue against it based on a few screenshots.