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6th level tank

Belbarid

First Post
I need help with a 6th level bruiser for an upcoming encounter. Should be something Fighter or Barbarian based. 36-point buy, and capable of dishing out serious damage to one or two targets. Not looking for a Death-Of-A-Thousand-Papercuts, but a high damage output tank.

No warforged, nothing with a Level Adjustment, and minimal magic items. Say, no more than what a 4th level character would have.

Any suggestions? I'm running out of creativity.
 

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Nifft

Penguin Herder
Straight up Barbarian 6. It's a classic for a good reason.

Feats are: Power Attack, Improved Sunder, Weapon Focus (Greatsword).
Str: 18 (17 +1 level), Dex: 14, Con: 16, Int: 9, Wis: 14, Cha: 8

Cheers, -- N
 

Mort

Legend
Supporter
Belbarid said:
I need help with a 6th level bruiser for an upcoming encounter. Should be something Fighter or Barbarian based. 36-point buy, and capable of dishing out serious damage to one or two targets. Not looking for a Death-Of-A-Thousand-Papercuts, but a high damage output tank.

No warforged, nothing with a Level Adjustment, and minimal magic items. Say, no more than what a 4th level character would have.

Any suggestions? I'm running out of creativity.

A 6th level charging barbarian with a great axe is usually all you need.
Throw in some fighter levels for weapon focus (or 4 for weapon specialization) for variety and your good to go.
Of course, if you want to get nasty, throw in lion totem barbarian (from complete champion) and you'll make any other damage dealer cry (especially if you eventually get the tactical feat that allows reckless charge - but that may make your DM cry foul and ban both lion totem barbarian and reckless charge).
If you want to get ridiculously silly nasty - throw in the whirling frenzy alternate ability from Unearthed Arcana.

Barring a few tweaks that should be enough to overly powegame a charge build
 

Arkhandus

First Post
I get the impression that the OP is the DM, and needs an NPC bruiser to maim his PCs.

And Whirling Frenzy is broken.

The Lion Totem barbarian variant isn't that great. 4 levels of fighter gives the same damage bonus through Weapon Specialization, but not limited to just charge attacks.



I guess I'd suggest a half-orc barbarian 2/fighter 4. He won't likely be around for too long, so several barbarian levels aren't needed; he won't be raging more than once probably. Str 20, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 6. Feats: Power Attack, Improved Sunder, Weapon Focus (Greatsword), Weapon Specialization (Greatsword).

Also either Endurance and Diehard (for extra-long fighting ability), or Improved Initiative and Iron Will (for a better chance of acting first, and a better chance of resisting instant-halting enchantments and illusions like Color Spray, Deep Slumber, Hold Person, or Suggestion).

You might also consider Reckless Offense as one these two feats (a general, non-psionic feat from the Expanded Psionics Handbook, or SRD here). If you do so, you may also want to have him take Stand Still (same book, or SRD here) in order to prevent enemies from escaping his reach.

You may go with the Bear Totem barbarian variant, gaining Diehard as a virtual bonus feat while Raging. Also, either way, you may swap out the 2nd Barbarian level with 1 level of Ranger, for the sake of Favored Enemy (whatever race is most common among the party or whatever). That'll boost your damage a bit more still.

You might also go with an orc instead of half-orc, taking 1 level of Orc Paragon (from Unearthed Arcana; you can see the class in the Races section of the Hypertext SRD) instead of the 1 level of Ranger. Your Strength will go up by 2 points, and the Orc Paragon level will eliminate your orcish light sensitivity, as well as boost your Darkvision by 30 feet. Only drawback will be -2 to Wisdom (as if that matters much to this, assuming you're making a melee machine to make the players curse up and down).

Important equipment being a greatsword (either +1 or just masterwork), breastplate armor (either +1 or masterwork), composite longbow allowing +5 Strength to damage (might or might not be masterwork; his back-up weapon for any time he faces a nuisance that he can't reach on foot very quickly, like flying opponents), and possibly Gauntlets of Ogre Power (for +2 Strength enhancement, which would make his Strength total 22).
 
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Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
Option #1) Samurai (Oriental Adventures, Dragon #318 OA 3.5 revision preferred, CW versions will work) 5/Kensai 1.

Downside: +5BAB. You lose one BAB to take the Kensai class.

Upside: The OA Samurai gets almost as many feats as the Fighter, equivalent armor and weapon choices, and more skill points. It is also one of the few classes that can qualify for Kensai by 6th PC level. The class' Ancestral Daisho feature grants it PC specific combat bonuses. Since the weapons are also masterwork, they can be enchanted normally as well.

Kensai also lets you boost your weapon's abilities, imbuing it with plusses or enchantments.

Downside: +5BAB. You lose one BAB to take the Kensai class.

Option #2) Psychic Warrior 5/Barb 1 or PsyWar5/+1LA Race (like Half-Giant).

Downside: PsyWar costs you 2BAB.

Upside: 3 Bonus feats. Access to Psionic Feats- some are quite nasty. The PsyWar's access to Expansion at 1st level allows him to boost his size 2 levels- coupled with a good 2 handed weapon & the Power Attack feat tree, and he'll be dishing out 4d6 base damage per hit (or more with weapon enchantments, etc.) damage at a good reach...esp. with a reach weapon! Boost it one more notch if you take Monkey Grip or you opt for Half-Giant with Powerful Build.
 

Arkhandus

First Post
So, to throw up a quick statblock cuz I feel like it......the best path seems to be like so.

Grag, orc bear-totem barbarian 1/orc paragon 1/fighter 4, ECL 6/CR 6
Str 22, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 6, Wis 9, Cha 6
HP 49 (supposing half the maximum from each hit die)
AC 19 (touch 13, flat-footed 16), Initiative +7, BAB +6/+1, speed 20 feet
Fortitude +11, Reflex +4, Will +2

Feats: Power Attack, Improved Sunder, Weapon Focus (Greatsword), Reckless Offense, Weapon Specialization (Greatsword), Iron Will
Skills: Intimidate +7, Survival +3
Racial Trait: Darkvision 90 feet (after orc paragon level)
Class Features: Rage 1/day, illiteracy, improved darkvision (90 ft. total), no light sensitivity

Possessions: Greatsword +1, Breastplate +1, Potion of Haste (10th-level caster), Potion of Cure Moderate Wounds (3rd-level caster), Traveler's Outfit, 2 Belt Pouches, Flint and Steel, 44 gold pieces, 20 silver pieces

Attacks: Greatsword +14/+9 melee for 2d6+12 damage, PA(1/2) greatsword +11/+6 melee for 2d6+18 damage, PA(full) greatsword +8/+3 melee for 2d6+24 damage

Attack Notes: Add +4 on attack rolls against items on other creatures, does not provoke an attack of opportunity when attacking an opponent's weapon, can take a -4 AC penalty for the round with an attack or full-attack action in melee to gain +2 on melee attack rolls. Likely to charge first, getting +2 on the attack roll and -2 to AC for 1 round, but cannot use Reckless Offense's AC/attack tradeoff during the charge. Likely to enter a Rage as soon as he gets into melee range for an attack. But just might chug his Potion of Haste before all that.

Rage: One use per day, lasts a total of 8 rounds when used. Add +4 Strength and Constitution, +2 morale on Will saving throws, -2 to Armor Class, and gain the Diehard feat temporarily (can stay conscious and fight onward while at negative hit points, as though disabled, until reaching -10 hit points). Greatsword attack rolls go up by +2 as a result, and greatsword damage goes up by +3 as a result. Fortitude save goes up by +2 as a result, and hit points go up by +12 as a result, but loses 12 hit points at the end of the rage.
 
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Arkhandus

First Post
I'll throw together stats for that psychic warrior build for comparison's sake, since again, I just feel like it. :D

However, a 5th-level psychic warrior cannot augment Expansion to 7 power points for the 2-degree size increase; they can only increase their size by 1 degree (Overchannel would only allow 6 power points to be spent at the time).


Dustwalker, half-giant psychic warrior 5, ECL 6/CR 6
Str 20, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 15, Cha 8
HP 35 (supposing half the maximum from each hit die)
AC 19 (touch 11, flat-footed 18), Initiative +1, BAB +3, speed 20 feet
Fortitude +7, Reflex +2, Will +3

Feats: Power Attack, Psionic Weapon, Weapon Focus (Greatsword), Reckless Offense, Improved Sunder
Skill: Concentration +11
Racial Traits: Giant, low-light vision, fire acclimated (+2 on saves against fire spells and effects), powerful build, naturally psionic (2 power points, already factored in below), psi-like ability (Stomp, 1/day, 2nd-level manifester, Reflex DC 10)
Class Features: Psionics (14 power points, manifester level 5th, save DC of 12 + power level, Expansion, Force Screen, Vigor, Animal Affinity, Concealing Amorpha)

I leave out Dissolving Weapon (in place of Concealing Amorpha) cuz it would be too cheesy and might very well insta-kill a PC, when combined with Psionic Weapon and a Huge greatsword and everything else.

Possessions: Large Greatsword +1, Masterwork Full Plate, Potion of Haste (8th-level caster), Potion of Shield of Faith (1st-level caster), Traveler's Outfit, 2 Belt Pouches, Flint and Steel, 44 gold pieces, 20 silver pieces

Attacks: Large greatsword +10 melee for 3d6+8 damage, PA(full) large greatsword +7 melee for 3d6+14 damage


Attack Notes: Add +4 on attack rolls against items on other creatures, does not provoke an attack of opportunity when attacking an opponent's weapon, can take a -4 AC penalty for the round with an attack or full-attack action in melee to gain +2 on melee attack rolls, can expend psionic focus to add +2d6 damage with one melee weapon attack.

Would start out hiding while buffing up. 1st round manifest Force Screen at 1pp for +4 AC. 2nd round manifest Animal Affinity at 3pp for +4 Strength. 3rd round manifest Concealing Amorpha at 3pp for 20% concealment. 4th round manifest Vigor, augmented to 5pp for 25 temporary hit points (putting total hp at 60). 5th round drink Potion of Shield of Faith. 6th round drink Potion of Haste. 7th round manifest Expansion at 1pp for Large size (powerful build making it effectively similar to Huge). At this point, only 1 power point remains in reserve, for use of psionic focus/psionic weapon.

8th round move out from hiding to go confront the party, heading in to attack. Might reach the nearest PC during this round, with Haste's speed increase. 9th round begin the series of full-attack actions with Reckless Offense and full Power Attack, using Psionic Weapon on the first attack. Probably target the party's warrior's weapon first, trying to destroy it with Improved Sunder, Psionic Weapon, Reckless Offense, and full Power Attack. After that weapon is destroyed, pummel the warrior into unconsciousness then move in against each of the next few targets, charging each one in turn with full-attack actions until they're unconscious.

Results:
1st attacking round: initiative is rolled at +0 after the Dex penalty from Expansion, total AC is 20, total HP is 60, total saving throws are unchanged, has 20% concealment, size is Large, attacks at +12 for 4d6+2d6+18 damage (probably breaking the opponent's weapon, if targeting it) and then a second time at +12 for 4d6+18 damage (probably directed at the opponent themselves, unless their weapon is still intact). Attacks are at +16 instead if striking the opponent's weapon.
2nd attacking round: attacks twice at +12 (or +16 versus opponents' weapons), dealing 4d6+18 damage each time.
3rd attacking round: repeats the 2nd attacking round.
4th attacking round: repeats the 2nd attacking round.
5th attacking round: 5-foot-step away and manifest Expansion again at 1pp, as it will have run out at this point (possibly sooner).
6th attacking round: get closer again if needed, and resume sequence from the 2nd round. Soon the Shield of Faith and the Haste will run out of duration, then the second Expansion will too. After that point, AC goes down to 19, size becomes Medium as normal, attacks are made at +11 instead of +12, and damage will go down to 3d6+17. Won't get 2 attacks per round anymore once Haste ends. The other self-buffs will last a few minutes longer, not that it's likely to matter.


Grag's HP are 1 higher when Raging, but drop to being 11 lower instead, afterward, since the extras aren't temporary HP like Dustwalker's HP from manifesting Vigor. Grag's AC will be several points lower much of the time, but he will have Diehard for a while. Grag needs no preparation time, unlike Dustwalker, who is vastly inferior if he doesn't get his half-dozen-odd rounds of self-buffing before the fight (though he can make do with just a few rounds of buffing and be almost as strong as normal, but it's a bad idea for him to waste more than 1 or 2 rounds buffing up if the battle starts before he gets any prep time). However, Grag would probably chug a Potion of Haste before the battle too, to make quicker mincemeat of his foes.

Grag, at full steam, would be attacking three times per round, at +13, +13, and +8, dealing 2d6+27 damage with each hit. Averaging 99 damage per round (66 if the third attack misses), compared to Dustwalker's average of 60 per round (66 in the first round thanks to Psionic Weapon). If Grag finds his third attack missing, he may lower the Power Attack value from full-6 to half-3, striking at +16, +16, and +11 each round, most likely hitting then, putting his average damage at 81 per round, still superior to Dustwalker's.

I think Grag wins. :D
If the two fought each other, Grag's Diehard from Bear Totem with Rage would allow him to survive the first round of attacks by Dustwalker, then he'd most likely turn Dustwalker into paste with his own full-attack. Though I'm not sure if Grag could chug one of his Cure Light Wounds potions while Raging, before he dies of losing the extra HP from Rage.
 

Mort

Legend
Supporter
Arkhandus said:
I get the impression that the OP is the DM, and needs an NPC bruiser to maim his PCs.

And Whirling Frenzy is broken.

The Lion Totem barbarian variant isn't that great. 4 levels of fighter gives the same damage bonus through Weapon Specialization, but not limited to just charge attacks.

.

Whirling Frenzy can be broken yes (though it certainly has its downsides especpially for an NPC - doesn't last as long and less hit points).

Since he asked for a 6th level bruiser - Lion Totem Barbarian means you don't have to bother with the levels of fighter. But I was actualy talking about shock trooper as an exploit to the lion totem variant (though that's just mean to the players).
 

Belbarid

First Post
Arkhandus said:
I get the impression that the OP is the DM, and needs an NPC bruiser to maim his PCs.

OP is definitely the DM. Suppose I should go into a little more detail- especially since none of my group hangs around ENWorld. :)

The setting is Kingdoms of Kalamar, and the group has just *seriously* mangled some long-term plans of the Church of the Flaymaster. You don't need to know anything about KoK to know that this is A Bad Thing(tm).

I'm building a hit team, consisting of three people.
One priest of the Flaymaster- serious Evil and Destruction here with the ability to act normally in negative HP until he falls over dead. The priests of this church have been though *much* worse than merely continuing to fight while walking on a broken leg and sporting a belly wound.
One Scout-type. I'm a lot more comfortable with this kind of character, and I'm thinking about a Ranger/Scout. Use the, whatsit- Swift Hunter?- feat from Complete Scoundrel as well as the Improved Skirmish. Having Elves and Humans as favored enemies ought to cover most of the group. (As an aside, wonder what that would do to the half-elf?)
I was having trouble with the bruiser. I want something to scare the crud out of people. Also gotta be fairly durable, because knowing this group, I can bet on three things happening. One, they're gonna figure out that they're being followed. The Ranger is *far* to good at what she does to miss this. Two, they're gonna lay a (likely successful) ambush. It's a tactic that's worked well for them a few times, and I think they're getting a taste for it. Three, one of them (likely the Warlock, played by my wife) will do something that I'm not anticipating. Most of them are quite good at that.

Incidently, Arkhandus, you're scary. :) Grag and Dustwalker are both really nice. I thought the Ninja/Swordsage NPC I put together was a handful, but I think the only way he'd walk away from one of these two is if he got a surprise round.

I also really like the Samurai/Kensai idea. Not for this encounter, but I think I'm going to tuck this one away into my "To Do Later" file.
 

Arkhandus

First Post
The Ranger's favored enemy ability would treat half-elves as Elves only, AFAIK. Half-elves are treated as an elven subrace and all.

Dustwalker can out-damage Grag for 1 round if the Dissolving Weapon power replaces his Concealing Amorpha, or his Animal Affinity (he'd need a Potion of Bull's Strength to replace the Animal Affinity's benefit, if replacing that one); Grag would make up the difference damage-wise in about 2 or 3 rounds.

Though Dustwalker needs several rounds of self-buffing to reach full power. On the other hand, if Dustwalker avoids some of that buffing (and doesn't use Reckless Offense, since it reduces his AC), he can be much tougher by re-manifesting Vigor at 5 power points for another 25 temporary HP after the previous 25 temporary HP have been lost. Concealing Amorpha also helps him in survivability, assuming he has it active and the PCs don't roll well every time on their % miss chances against him.

For more bad-guy-bruiser HP you could go with 4 points lower Dexterity, boosting Constitution by 2 points (since you mentioned 36 point-buy, and I already put them at 14 base Constitution, plus Dustwalker's racial bonus for 16 in his case). That'd get Grag 6 more HP or Dustwalker 5 more HP, and add +1 to their Fortitude saves (and boost Grag's Rage duration by 1 round, or Dustwalker's Concentration bonus by +1). I think they could also afford to lose 2 points of Wisdom (1 point instead for Dustwalker) in place of 2 points of Dexterity reduction.

Also, you could give them the Improved Toughness feat from Complete Warrior (+1 HP per hit die/level, so +6 for Grag or +5 for Dustwalker) in place of one of their normal feats from 1st/3rd/6th level (Reckless Offense, Improved Sunder, or Iron Will; Dustwalker gets Psionic Weapon at 1st, but could just as easily have it as his 5th-level bonus feat and Improved Sunder as his normal 1st-level feat).
 

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