D&D 5E 7 Legitimate Beefs with Hoard of the Dragon Queen

[Sailor Moon]

I'm on the player side of this adventure as I'm not DMing it. One of the things that annoyed our group was Beef #3: Dragon Eggs & Unclear Goals. I don't know if this is covered in the adventure or not.

We decided to take the eggs rather than destroy them. There seemed to be no guidance on this for the DM, and it turned into a genuine cluster f#. From that point on we have been just simply following the railroad as we got so frustrated with the situation.

Sounds like the party will be having an omelette each for breakfast every morning.

 

[MerricB]

I still feel like the floating castle is just one more bit of evidence that this AP was originally slotted to take place on Krynn. The Rise of Tiamat's storyline only reinforces this perception.

Flying castles have long been a part of giant lore. A storm giant's flying castle appears in the generic adventure "Terror in Skytumble Tor", part of Adventure Pack I (1987). The original monster manual (1977) has some living in "magical cloud islands", which moved to castles construct atop of clouds in later editions.

 

[MerricB]

I'm on the player side of this adventure as I'm not DMing it. One of the things that annoyed our group was Beef #3: Dragon Eggs & Unclear Goals. I don't know if this is covered in the adventure or not.

We decided to take the eggs rather than destroy them. There seemed to be no guidance on this for the DM, and it turned into a genuine cluster f#. From that point on we have been just simply following the railroad as we got so frustrated with the situation.

There's not a lot of guidance there for the DM. Here's the text:

"If the eggs are left here, they hatch in less than a week. If they are taken away, whether they hatch depends on how they are stored and treated. Away from a warm, humid environment suhc as this chamber, their progress halts until they are again in a suitable incubator. The dragons can be killed easily if the eggs are smashed."

Everything else is left up to the DM and the players.

What is particularly interesting about this is that, apart from being open-ended (and I know a lot of DMs will not want the complication of the eggs), the fate of the hatchery is something that is addressed in the Rise of Tiamat, with several NPCs giving differing opinions as to *what* should have happened (and possibly criticising the players for their choices). I wish I'd had Rise of Tiamat when I was running this, just because it would have alerted me to many more ideas as to what could happen.

Is this a flaw in the adventure? Honestly, I don't think so. A large part of it could comes down to a disconnect between the writing style of the adventure (which tends to trust the DM to adapt according to the actions of their players) and DMs who are used to a lot more of the detail being spelt out.

Cheers!

 

[Parmandur]

There's not a lot of guidance there for the DM. Here's the text:



"If the eggs are left here, they hatch in less than a week. If they are taken away, whether they hatch depends on how they are stored and treated. Away from a warm, humid environment suhc as this chamber, their progress halts until they are again in a suitable incubator. The dragons can be killed easily if the eggs are smashed."



Everything else is left up to the DM and the players.



What is particularly interesting about this is that, apart from being open-ended (and I know a lot of DMs will not want the complication of the eggs), the fate of the hatchery is something that is addressed in the Rise of Tiamat, with several NPCs giving differing opinions as to *what* should have happened (and possibly criticising the players for their choices). I wish I'd had Rise of Tiamat when I was running this, just because it would have alerted me to many more ideas as to what could happen.



Is this a flaw in the adventure? Honestly, I don't think so. A large part of it could comes down to a disconnect between the writing style of the adventure (which tends to trust the DM to adapt according to the actions of their players) and DMs who are used to a lot more of the detail being spelt out.



Cheers!

Think it might point to a formatting flaw; so much of Hoard makes more sense in light of Rise, would have been nice to have it all together. Which seems to be the format going forwards?

 

[MerricB]

Which seems to be the format going forwards?

Actually, from what I gather the adventures will be of different lengths. So, Tyranny of Dragons is a pretty big event (2 adventures), but the Princes of the Apocalypse is a shorter event (1 adventure).

Possibly. I could well be wrong.

It's certainly true that having both adventures out makes a big difference, though!

Cheers!

 

[Mondas711]

I ran this encounter for Adventurer's League and if the Cyanwrath berserker room was meant to leave a new group of players alive I don't see how. I have three new players and one player who has some play experience. The party composition is 2 rangers, a paladin, and a rogue. This is not really unusual as new players tend to shy away from casters. The problem is you need to do massive damage quickly or Cyanwrath's breath weapon will kill you easily. Three of the character's failed their saves and dropped immediately upon entering the room. If this adventure was meant to be this tough, it shouldn't have been used for D&D Encounters where new players are expected.

 

[MerricB]

I ran this encounter for Adventurer's League and if the Cyanwrath berserker room was meant to leave a new group of players alive I don't see how. I have three new players and one player who has some play experience. The party composition is 2 rangers, a paladin, and a rogue. This is not really unusual as new players tend to shy away from casters. The problem is you need to do massive damage quickly or Cyanwrath's breath weapon will kill you easily. Three of the character's failed their saves and dropped immediately upon entering the room. If this adventure was meant to be this tough, it shouldn't have been used for D&D Encounters where new players are expected.

This is why there is a DM. This is why the Encounters book comes with a section of DM tips that say to alter the adventure to suit your players.

"In short, being the DM isn’t about following the adventure’s text word for word. It’s about helping to create a fun, challenging game environment for the players."

 

[delericho]

Flying castles have long been a part of giant lore.

Predating D&D, in fact - I seem to recall something about magic beans...

 

[RealAlHazred]

"In short, being the DM isn’t about following the adventure’s text word for word. It’s about helping to create a fun, challenging game environment for the players."

I love this quote (Tyranny of Dragons Player Guide, page 12) because it shows the distance they're taking from previous organized play campaigns. The reactions of two of my DMs also neatly illustrated the divide:

• (from a DM who normally runs story games) "That's great! I feel like I can really run it the way I want!"
• (from an excellent 4th edition DM) "So, basically, 'fix my mistakes,' is that it?"

 

[Wolfskin]

I ran this encounter for Adventurer's League and if the Cyanwrath berserker room was meant to leave a new group of players alive I don't see how. I have three new players and one player who has some play experience. The party composition is 2 rangers, a paladin, and a rogue. This is not really unusual as new players tend to shy away from casters. The problem is you need to do massive damage quickly or Cyanwrath's breath weapon will kill you easily. Three of the character's failed their saves and dropped immediately upon entering the room. If this adventure was meant to be this tough, it shouldn't have been used for D&D Encounters where new players are expected.

I do think the two berserkers were odd design choices, though this is probably due to shifting monster stats during the development of Hoard; I changed them to dragonclaw cultists when I ran the adventure. I would've kept the berserker if the number of players were five or six instead of three. Regarding Cyanwrath's difficulty, my players didn't find him that tough, since his Breath Weapon is a 5-foot wide line and only hit the Fighter (I don't use miniatures, but the characters were explicitly spread out during combat).