A call to would-be 4E publishers (if it wasn’t for the GSL).

[FormerlyDickensC]

A call to would-be 4E publishers (if it wasn’t for the GSL).

I saw this thread talking about a “free 4E” http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?p=4345293

…basically a community attempt to create 4E-surrogate system under OGL (and partially derived from OGL sources) for publishing content that players and dm’s could use to drop into their traditional 4E games. So a publisher publishes new material for this 4E-like OGL surrogate system and thereby allows players to use this material in the traditional 4E manner without the publisher having to buy-into the GSL. The game terms will be different, but the mechanics will be the same.

I think there is a lot of potential here, and pitfalls. But if done correctly, could be invaluable for the community. I would really urge some would-be 4E publishers to unite on the work entailed in such a project.

Now, this is not to say that the publishing company should formally back the project. I’m just saying that developers and writers should somehow figure a way to work together on making a drop-in replacement for 4E under OGL terms. I know there are legal issues, but most of these have already been identified leaving only the question of how to overcome them in terms of making the new game system. This is why I call on all the otherwise would-be 4E publishers to get on the ball…it is you who have the ability to make this happen.

Maybe such a system would not be great for for-profit endeavors, but it would be good for the community. And after time, after establishing itself, the surrogate system could allow for for-profit endeavors. At the very least, a basic model outlying how such a surrogate system would be sculpted would provide a great resource to those wishing to create content. I hope some of you can contribute ideas on the matter.

Thank you. Please share your thoughts.

 

[Ruis]

I have already started. I need alot of help though. I need help with how the best way this would be executed without treading on others intellectual property and also help with keeping it compatible with the standard 4e. I have tried getting in touch with Ranger wickett through email but haven't gotten any response.

if anyone genuinely has some good ideas they wish to contribute, or knowledge about intellectual property and copyright please get in touch with me. I need some good advice and possibly some help ;p

 

[FormerlyDickensC]

if anyone genuinely has some good ideas they wish to contribute, or knowledge about intellectual property and copyright please get in touch with me. I need some good advice and possibly some help ;p

The main issue is simply staying away from text identified as intellectual property of WotC (i.e. copyrighted). Some terms are more obvious than others; and some fall into grey areas. The hard part is re-explaining the rules without using WotC language and creating new terms to act as surrogates for the WotC language.

1. When there is a question of whether a term is WotC IP, assume that it is WotC IP and create a surrogate word to represent it in the surrogate system....great care needs to be taken with this so that the represented word or intention is clear without crossing the line by copying the original.
2. And no string of text (as opposed to a simple term) should be repeated from a 4E book under any circumstance.

Following these two simple rules, you should be mostly good, barring a few odd cases here and there that will require greater effort and slyness to deal with (which none I can think of atm).

 

[Angellis_ater]

My suggestion would be to use the communal approach of Paizo, utilizing the "communal creativity" that is available. Post all problems in a forum thread, like this one, and let people work it out together.

For example, in the Free 4E thread, there was a question on how to relate towards "shift, pull & push" - are these generic enough to be used or does alternates need to be posted?

Second of all, how does a finished product "spread"? Should it be published via PDF? Wiki? Website?

 

[FormerlyDickensC]

For example, in the Free 4E thread, there was a question on how to relate towards "shift, pull & push" - are these generic enough to be used or does alternates need to be posted?

I would argue that since there is a question, go ahead and use the suggested surrogates in the other thread. And come up with more where needed.

Second of all, how does a finished product "spread"? Should it be published via PDF? Wiki? Website?

Lets start by hashing out ideas in this (or another) forum thread, then after ideas begin taking shape throw them up on a wiki in some sort of ordered logical format. I recommend the wiki be open access to allow anyone to make changes. I doubt vandalism would be an issue and openness much more important and effective. If the wiki needs to be closed to members, you can then make folks register and block as necessary, or whathaveyou. Ongoing discussion can take place in the thread after the wiki starts to take shape, and save the pdf for much later down the road.

EDIT: lets hammer out a basic framework consisting of surrogate terms and phrases for the 4E items...this means for anything that is or might be WotC owned words (mechanics terms, proper nouns, power names, and so on), and is where you designers come in....then worry about the wiki. We're not really designing much, just translating the language into OGL material. It shouldn't actually be too difficult.

 

[Ruis]

Thanks for the info. I'm going to keep working on this. I am using the ogl for terms that already exist such as ac and stuff, and for words that are very common and exist in other game systems, I am keeping the same if no other logical word exist. I am reworking all the words that are not derivatives of 3.5, like almost all the powers and masterwork armors, some of the races and classes.

dragonborn become halfdragon

warlord becomes knight

here are armors i came up with

Armor

FullPlate Armor
-Dwarven FullPlate
-Adamantine FullPlate

When i make changes i try to strive for a lower magic feel.

(made some edits)

 

[Angellis_ater]

These are analogues to the requested rulesterms:
Push = Move
Pull = Draw
Shift = Transfer

Granted, I'm not sure that you couldn't just merge Push/Pull into a Move. Anyone more fluent in 4E mechanics that can help out?

And I do believe that a Minor action exists within the Fantasy Concepts release by Samarand Press, can someone confirm/deny?

Ruis - if anything do not move towards ANY kind of "feel". If we focus on the most basic of things, we should be "home clear". Not EVERYTHING needs to be translated, just the mechanics. So no need to "translate" armor names, for example.

 

[Ruis]

the armor seems like a mechanic of sorts. could you explain more? why would names for things like push need to be changed, but not things like item names?

also going by "feel" is not what i am going by for a final release, just what i should work on first, and then I can get feedback. Just working on what seems like the biggest liabilities first. so no worries.

also push=move could get confusing with normal move

 

[FormerlyDickensC]

Ruis - Not EVERYTHING needs to be translated, just the mechanics. So no need to "translate" armor names, for example.

Ruis, I think what he's saying is that some things like basic items are not a necessity when creating analogues/surrogates since they are pretty basic and general.

This kind of applies to power and feats, tho it would be nice to have surrogates for those in the end. Mostly, its the rule mechanics that we need to be able to describe in terms other than those used in the 4E books.

I agree that the push=move could be confusing, how about push=shove or push=press....Or something else that seems to fit nicely, a thesaurus is helpful in these situations.

 

[Ruis]

I have been using a thesaurus alot. at times its useful and other times less then useful.

here are a list of terms I would like others to comment on if it needs changed or not.


Feat bonus

Item bonus

Vulnerability, deafened, marked, restrained, insubstantial, weakened, surprised, ongoing damage, Combat advantage, phasing

basic attack

healing surge

Second wind

Power, exploits

minor action

tier, heroic, paragon (path), epic (path)

Dragon born
Eladrin

Warlock
Warlord

All stat block templates and their relative definitions (like special effect)

all class power names/paragon names, all monster names, Items, race powers and abilities.

I don't want to touch magic items or monsters yet. This is pretty overwhelming as it is ;p


I am sure I am missing some, but this is my to do list at the moment, although right now i am concentrating on rewriting the rules in my own words or using the srd as replacement.

Ruis, I think what he's saying is that some things like basic items are not a necessity when creating analogues/surrogates since they are pretty basic and general.

i agree with you with most of the items, but the masterwork armor is pretty specific (like godplate armor and elderhide armor).