A class using inverted stats!

[Gahnomen]

I've been toying with this idea for a while, a class that gains something from having a really low ability score. This is what I've come up with so far.

Dementist:

The Dementist is a person gradually losing touch with reality and getting deeper and deeper caught up in his own Nightmares. The ability to manifest Nightmares comes only to the strangest, most rotten of minds. Thus, the Dementist uses negative Wisdom to cast spells. A Wisdom score of 10 means that the Dementist can cast level 0 spells, a Wisdom score of 4 means that he can cast level 6 spells (max level for a Dementist).

Also, the negative modifier functions as a positive modifier for most mechanical intents and purposes for the Dementist (except for skill checks), adding to willsaves and spell DC's. A Wisdom score of 4 would mean a +3 modifier for the Dementia Caster. Wisdom scores above 10 would in turn count as negative modifiers.

This severe lack of Wisdom does affect the way the Dementist sees the world, and his behavior will a lot of the time seem erratic and un-wise. The Dementist also has real problems actually fathoming when something is going on in the real world, and not just in his head (the lack of Wisdom giving minuses to Spot and Listen checks). The Dementist is a character that constantly teeters on the brink of gibbering madness, embracing the parts of his mind that normal people try to supress.

As mentioned, this class will have some spells (spell progression as a bard) as well as some sort of summoning mechanic to pull the nightmares out of his brain. I'm figuring there will be a limited melee potential as well, something like average base attack bonus and light armor. I'll post more accurate details later if anyone is interested

If anyone has already tried something similair, I'd love to hear about it.

 

[DreamChaser]

Interesting concept. It flies in the face of the higher=better default of d20 but hey rules are made to be broken.

I would recommend against allowing them to count their Wisdom penalty as a bonus to Will saves. Instead, grant them progressive immunities to mind-affecting spells and abilities or spell resistance that only applies to mind-affecting spells. This way, they have a first line of defense but if their enemies breach that, then they are sitting ducks.

Just a thought.

DC

 

[Gahnomen]

Progressive immunities sounds like a good idea.. It makes the class even freakier as he's going to be really bad at some things like skills and saves. Also it works that the more the class is progressed, the mind of the Dementist grows so warped that normal mind affecting magic simply won't work anymore.

 

[DanMcS]

Problem with using the negative ability modifier is that the character is rather limited in his high end spell progression- he can't get higher than the 18-19 level on his modifier to save DCs (+5 at wisdom 1) and bonus spells, since at wisdom 0 he's unplayable. So his save DCs will never be higher than 21 (+5 stat, level 6 spell), which isn't all that great in high-level play.

Might end up needing some kind of item, a "Periapt of Insane Insight" or something that would grant a -2 to -6 "bonus" to the character's wisdom score, for purposes of save DCs, skill checks, will saves, and bonus spells only (ie, he can have an effective wisdom less than 0 without being braindead).

 

[Gahnomen]

The Dementist doesn't need a lower score than 4 to be able to cast all his spells, since he runs spell progression as a bard (only 6th level spells). I've given a bit of thought to what you're saying though, and I figure I'll give him a passive special ability at around level 9-10'ish that would go a little something like this:

Absence of Mind: At Xth level, the Dementist's mind works in a completely different fashion than other people. Thus, the Dementist gains SR: X against mind affecting spells. In addition the DC of the Dementist's own mind affecting spells is increased by Y (probably 2, possibly 3 or 4).

You should know though, that I don't use the normal spell lists, I have a magic system inspired by the card game Magic. Five colors, a caster only gets to use one of the colors unless they multiclass. The Dementist is able to use Black spells, which is the color of decay, undeath, death and madness. The Dementist will be somewhat of an expert on the madness part

 

[Felnar]

the Alienist PrC in Complete Arcane has similar features

and it sounds like this class would bring dump-stat abuse to a new level

 

[Gahnomen]

Well it would be easy enough to disallow dumpstatting, and I plan to introduce this class with the following rule about the Wisdom score: If you're allocating an actual Wisdom score of 12 to a Dementist, the Dementist would take that as an 8. A 16 would be a 4, etc. So you have to "spend" the normal amount for your low Wisdom.

If you took a race that has for instance -2 to Wisdom, that would count as +2 to Wisdom in the case of the Dementist.

 

[evolved]

what about undead, constucts and such who have a wisdom of say 1

also the reason DnD doesn't reward a low stat is percisely that, the ability to advance is by definition limited you can't have a score less than one and still function as an organic living being, items will only go so far you will fall behind the others and you will end up pretty vulnerable to a multitude of antimage tricks including the unstopple Knife to the soul, mage types are already hideously vulnerable to that attack a castter that has a stat of 3 will go down in one hit

turning a weakness into a strength is strategy 202 i'll be the first to admit but thats not what it means

there is an ability that belongs to the madness domain for clerics look it up

also I kinda thought Braids was wise in her way

it takes much wisdom to act as if you have none

also this should be a prestige class make them suffer the full effects of being a nutjob before gaining power

 

[Panask]

Well it would be easy enough to disallow dumpstatting, and I plan to introduce this class with the following rule about the Wisdom score: If you're allocating an actual Wisdom score of 12 to a Dementist, the Dementist would take that as an 8. A 16 would be a 4, etc. So you have to "spend" the normal amount for your low Wisdom.

If you took a race that has for instance -2 to Wisdom, that would count as +2 to Wisdom in the case of the Dementist.

If you're going to do that, it's probably easier to interpret Wisdom as usual, and say something like: For each level the Dementist suffers a -1 penalty to all Wis checks,Wis-based skill checks, and Will saves. Wisdom's effect on the ability to cast higher-level spells, bonus spells, and the save DC of spells is unchanged.

I think there's a "Madness" domain that works something like this, as well as the Alienist class (as mentioned), so they may be helpgul as guides.

Panask
Servitar to Baldur

 

[Nyeshet]

Well it would be easy enough to disallow dumpstatting, and I plan to introduce this class with the following rule about the Wisdom score: If you're allocating an actual Wisdom score of 12 to a Dementist, the Dementist would take that as an 8. A 16 would be a 4, etc. So you have to "spend" the normal amount for your low Wisdom.

If you took a race that has for instance -2 to Wisdom, that would count as +2 to Wisdom in the case of the Dementist.

That only works if you start out as a Dementist. What about a Fighter or Rogue or (etc) who - after two or three levels - takes their first level of Dementist? They could readily justify using Wis as a dump stat, and if their character had recently experienced something horrifying, they could even state the sudden class change was due to the experience (which may be as minor as meeting a powerful undead for the first time or learning their patron was actually evil and using them for clean up and to get rid of potential rivals, etc).

Its a nice idea, but it needs a little more work.