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A comment on weight and mass

OzayTheYellow

First Post
First, I really like this system. I appreciate the crossover of genres, and the ability to switch between them and add or subtract scope, as needed.

I tried to look for a thread that reflects what I wrote here, but could not. I apologize if this has already been discussed.

tl;dr - Switch to metric, it is better when dealing with non-1g (Earth) environments.

I understand that, in my own games I can change values and systems as I see fit, but this is still a developing game, why not start off with the right information?

When talking about space travel and spaceships, it makes no sense to measure things in pounds and tons. If I have something that is 100 lbs on a 1g planet (Earth), it weighs 16.6 lbs on the moon. and it would weigh nothing while in orbit!

For example, take the "Zero-G Backpack". I buy one in the marketplace on the moon, and put 100 lbs in it. Now I travel to Earth, and suddenly the items in weigh 603 lbs! If I am in a zero-g environment, can I now stuff as much stuff as I want into the backpack because they all weigh nothing?

How much does a spaceship weigh, in lbs, in deep space? Nothing. If you put it on a scale and looked at the needle, it would read 0. Why? Because physics!

A solution! The game is still in development, why not start off using the system of measurement that most of the world uses and is much better equipped to deal with things behaving in alternate gravity situations. It is the system that most science uses when measuring things, and is easier to understand, in the long run, than the archaic system currently used by the only 3 countries in the world who still use it officially.

Measuring in metric mass is a much better solution. Mass is the same no matter where you stand (baring a few exceptions). If you say the Zero-g backpack can hold 45 kg (about 100 lbs in 1g), it doesn't matter where you are, 45 kg is still the same on Earth as it is on the moon or in deep space, the only thing that changes is the amount of force gravity is exerting on that 45 kg. And adding a volume restriction on the backpack might be good too.

I would like to say the same thing with miles/kilometers, but that argument is irrelevant as you can generally just switch between the two. However, if you use kilograms, might as well switch the whole system over. No sense in using both.
 

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Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
I found the thought of metres in O.L.D. to be more jarring that feet in N.E.W., so ultimately went with that choice. Maybe it's become fashionable in the future to go back to old terminology?

I understand the difference between weight and mass. I might add a sidebar explaining it, though.
 

pedr

Explorer
I must admit sci-fi in imperial measurements would feel very weird indeed. I can't do any kind of meaningful calculation in imperial, and it seems as if there's more scope for needing such things in a sci-fi game. I have no idea how force is measured in imperial, for instance, so discussions of the effects of gravity would be likely to confuse me unless they were in kg, Newtons, etc.

I wouldn't have a problem with a metric fantasy game, though.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
I must admit sci-fi in imperial measurements would feel very weird indeed. I can't do any kind of meaningful calculation in imperial, and it seems as if there's more scope for needing such things in a sci-fi game. I have no idea how force is measured in imperial, for instance, so discussions of the effects of gravity would be likely to confuse me unless they were in kg, Newtons, etc.

The game doesn't feature physics equations! Yikes! :)

It has stuff like 1G or 0.5G or what-have-you which are designated as the categories zero, low, normal, high, and ultra-high gravity and which simply adjust things like jump distances and speed and the like.
 

Tashtego

Explorer
I would prefer metric for both. I wouldn't find it that jarring for OLD; you could always declare that one metre = yard or one square on the grid or something.r
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
One 5' square is equal to 1.5m if you prefer to use that terminology. And you can approximate 1lb as half a kg.
 

nerfherder

Explorer
The game doesn't feature physics equations! Yikes! :)
Sounds pretty rules-lite to me then ;)

I'm sure you've already had this debate internally, and I would guess that the main reason for using imperial measurements is simply because the majority of your audience uses them. Which is understandable, even if I find imperial measurements in sci-fi to sound so old-fashioned!
 

hmx

First Post
My vote would be to use metric for both. If you feel metric to be too jarring for O.L.D. then you could use stones and spans for mass and length (or something more creative). I don't think too many people will care overly much about length units being metric as long as they know that x units equal 1 sqaure and that whatever that unit is makes some sort of sense(when compared to real-world units).
 

DokDaka

First Post
I'm just going to chime in and vote for metric for both. The lbs and miles in N.E.W. feels REALLY strange. Otherwise I love what is happening with this system.
 

Miles and pounds make sense to us American folk who deny the rest of the worlds so called "improved" measure system :)


That being said, my favorite measuring for fantasy is to use Stone weight and Spans, fort-night rides, and what not. There are rules for 3e/4e for using Stone weights that could be readily adopted and are built on the concept that Stone weight encompasses weight, mass, and bulk.

It makes sense to use imperial for NEW, but I can see how the larger market would prefer not to learn a new measuring system.

But the flip side of that, most of the games I have played in generally ignore specific weights and kinda guess at how much is too much to carry.

Would it be too much to go with Stone weight all around?

IIRC, 1 stone = about 13.5 pounds
 

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