In the campaign that I DM (epic level now, set in the Forgotten Realms), I have a player that wishes to buy a coffee bean plantation in Maztica. I don't have a clue what one would cost per acre, how many lb's of beans it would produce, upkeep, etc... Anyone have any hints, suggestions, advice, etc?
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A complex question for you gaming-gurus out there...
- Thread starter Arravis
- Start date
JacktheRabbit
Explorer
How about just enough to make a nice tidy profit when the weather is good and less than that when the weather is bad.
Leave the specifics as background information that is not really needed.
Leave the specifics as background information that is not really needed.
Here's what I would do.
- Let him buy a coffee bean plantation. Why not?
- Assume that for the most part, the business breaks even unless he's there to personally oversee things. (he is an adventurer with an investment, not a farmer). Possibly allow some small income to flow his way.
- Blatantly abuse his plantation for plot hooks. Creatures destroying crops, local weather catastophes, worker rebellions, whatever. Not to meniton pirates, sea monsters, and storms causing delivery problems.
- If he thinks he's going to use this as a way to simply generate money without any effort, disabuse him of that notion. If he does nothing to ensure that he gets every copper he's due, corruption will suck it up.
- If instead he thinks it would be neat for his character to be a plantation owner, by all means indulge him and let him defend his plantation.
- Let him buy a coffee bean plantation. Why not?
- Assume that for the most part, the business breaks even unless he's there to personally oversee things. (he is an adventurer with an investment, not a farmer). Possibly allow some small income to flow his way.
- Blatantly abuse his plantation for plot hooks. Creatures destroying crops, local weather catastophes, worker rebellions, whatever. Not to meniton pirates, sea monsters, and storms causing delivery problems.
- If he thinks he's going to use this as a way to simply generate money without any effort, disabuse him of that notion. If he does nothing to ensure that he gets every copper he's due, corruption will suck it up.
- If instead he thinks it would be neat for his character to be a plantation owner, by all means indulge him and let him defend his plantation.
First off, it's a she 
. Anyway... she likes to go into details and the kind of money she'll be investing does tend to make more money with little effort (as there is plenty of evidence thereof in real life, but the risks ARE high). Anyway, the player likes details, it's party of her enjoyment of the game. But let's say I can talk her out of that... I'm not even sure what the initial cost of the plantation would be!
. Anyway... she likes to go into details and the kind of money she'll be investing does tend to make more money with little effort (as there is plenty of evidence thereof in real life, but the risks ARE high). Anyway, the player likes details, it's party of her enjoyment of the game. But let's say I can talk her out of that... I'm not even sure what the initial cost of the plantation would be!Just let her know you aren't going to be going into that sort of detail. If nothing else, just pull numbers out of the air. Cost - how much does she have? Tell her that for 50,000 gold pieces she can get a huge plantation in Maztica, complete with a workforce and all. After expenses, she can reclaim up to 5,000 a year if there are no problems. This is where you laugh maniacally. . Realistically, let her claim half that unless she's most vigilant about keeping the workers happy and keeping the supply lines open.
Say its 500 bushels a year. If she wants more detail than that, tell her her character will need to retire to be a coffee farmer. Getting bogged down into minutae will do nothing for the game. Owning a plantation in the abstract ties the character to the world and gives you a place to hook plots into.
Just don't destroy it - maybe threaten it, give issues with it, but don't just say "Oh, you get word that your plantation was burned to the ground and all the workers killed". And don't do it all the time. Let her have her happy place. Heck, maybe even let it become a famous brew, she'll start seeing signs in inns promising "XXX's famous coffee, fresh from Maztica!"
. Realistically, let her claim half that unless she's most vigilant about keeping the workers happy and keeping the supply lines open.Say its 500 bushels a year. If she wants more detail than that, tell her her character will need to retire to be a coffee farmer. Getting bogged down into minutae will do nothing for the game. Owning a plantation in the abstract ties the character to the world and gives you a place to hook plots into.
Just don't destroy it - maybe threaten it, give issues with it, but don't just say "Oh, you get word that your plantation was burned to the ground and all the workers killed". And don't do it all the time. Let her have her happy place. Heck, maybe even let it become a famous brew, she'll start seeing signs in inns promising "XXX's famous coffee, fresh from Maztica!"
I'm a RL friend of Arravis, but I don't play in his epic game. Again, we are a group of gamers that live off details. So, the more details the better.
I'm really posting though to say that I think that if you've made it to epic level and have aquired all that you have, you deserve to dump a bunch of money into a business to "simply generate money without any effort." I would like it better if my players put some love and effort into something like that, but if not, that's fine. Most businesses break even, but the most important thing is that the business owner makes connections with other influential people. That's how guilds get made. Anyway, just something I wanted to say.
Patrick
I'm really posting though to say that I think that if you've made it to epic level and have aquired all that you have, you deserve to dump a bunch of money into a business to "simply generate money without any effort." I would like it better if my players put some love and effort into something like that, but if not, that's fine. Most businesses break even, but the most important thing is that the business owner makes connections with other influential people. That's how guilds get made. Anyway, just something I wanted to say.
Patrick
Looking at prices in the Stronghold Builder's guide.. that seems a bit cheap, don't you think? Though... a small keep is 50,000 gp.... then again, to defend a place like that in the Maztica, she might need a small keep and defenders...
The other issue... is that she wants to start a Coffee Shop/Cafe in Waterdeep (she's already bought the property for that) and the two are tied in directly into each other. She's hoping to use her own stock of coffee for the shop and sell the excess in the open market.
She's a little enterpeneur (sp?). I do like the idea of her coffee becoming famous.. maybe she should do the monkey-excrement coffee beans that are so famous now, lol...
The other issue... is that she wants to start a Coffee Shop/Cafe in Waterdeep (she's already bought the property for that) and the two are tied in directly into each other. She's hoping to use her own stock of coffee for the shop and sell the excess in the open market.
She's a little enterpeneur
(sp?). I do like the idea of her coffee becoming famous.. maybe she should do the monkey-excrement coffee beans that are so famous now, lol...
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pawned79 said:
That's essentially what I'm trying to say. I don't know what the wealth guidelines are for "epic" levels, as I don't use them. But the amount you get back should largely be irrelevant. My general guideline for a PC starting a business is that it breaks even. It may lose money if the let something bad happen to it, or make money if they do something good. The important thing is how this furthers the campaign. It can definately make it a richer experience.
If by 'detail oriented gamers' you mean you want a sim for a coffee plantation, I have bad news for you. D&D doesn't do that. I don't know of any game that does that, so you might be looking at long hours of research into the details of the coffee growing business, along with making sure that the details are era-appropriate and accounting for the presence of magic. Hours and hours of work by the DM so the player knows exactly how many bushels per acre? Sorry, not worth it in my book. Just eyeball something. Exactly how much coffee gets produced per acre and other such details will never, in any way, matter.
diaglo
Adventurer
well let her know they don't have coffee in Maztica
If this is based off of the Real World.
there is some debate about the origins of coffee. but Yemen or Ethiopia is the birthplace of coffee.
a missionary stole a plant from the french roi and carried it over to the New World. he went without water to give it to his plant.
If this is based off of the Real World.
there is some debate about the origins of coffee. but Yemen or Ethiopia is the birthplace of coffee.
a missionary stole a plant from the french roi and carried it over to the New World. he went without water to give it to his plant.
Well, in FR Coffee is from Maztica and sells for ALOT. I guess what would be a basic thing I'm looking for is perhaps a "return on investment" number on a business like this.
I think the coffee house will be a huge hit in Waterdeep. She's building it in a very nice, ritzy, part of the city... in a corner location, near everything pretty much (Sea Ward, you don't want to know how much that cost her). Keep in mind the city size is between 125,000 in winter and as high as 300,000 in summer. So, she should make a ton of money. What should the basic "return on investment" be? I think for an idea like this, the first year or two should be massive... and it'll go down as competitors set up. So most of the money will be made up-front I suspect (unless she can keep competitiors from opening their own coffee shops, but in a city like Waterdeep, that's unlikely).
I think the coffee house will be a huge hit in Waterdeep. She's building it in a very nice, ritzy, part of the city... in a corner location, near everything pretty much (Sea Ward, you don't want to know how much that cost her). Keep in mind the city size is between 125,000 in winter and as high as 300,000 in summer. So, she should make a ton of money. What should the basic "return on investment" be? I think for an idea like this, the first year or two should be massive... and it'll go down as competitors set up. So most of the money will be made up-front I suspect (unless she can keep competitiors from opening their own coffee shops, but in a city like Waterdeep, that's unlikely).
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