Sniperfox47
First Post
My little sister was interested in what I've been talking about, so I showed her the playtest documents, and we built a couple characters together. While we were running through it we came across a couple things that didn't pop up before:
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1) Minimum Attributes: The rule under traditions states that no tradition can be taken if it would reduce an attribute below 1. While that makes sense for primary attributes SAEWICL (Strength, Agility, Endurance, Willpower, Intellect, Charisma, and Luck), for the secondary attributes which start at 0 (Reputation, Gold Coins/Credits, Magic, Psionics, ect.) shouldn't they be allowed to be modified back to 0?
She ran into that issue with a Burglar I (no rep), Archer I (no rep), Assassin I(+1 rep). She wanted to take Beggar I(-1 rep) as her 4th, but that would lower it back to 0.
Possible fix: What we did was just houserule that because it's a secondary stat it can be lowered to 0 rather than to 1. She couldn't have taken Assassin I, Beggar III because that would have given her a negative reputation, but she can lower it so she has a complete lack on reputation.
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2) Alchemists: I understand that there are some changes to herbalism and alchemy on the way but since it's what we were able to test, here's our thoughts on the current system. With the way the current system is set up, a cantrip level effect can be recreated in potion form by a herbalist for next to no cost. Even a 2mp potion made by the herbalist can be mass brewed at a rate of 1 potion every 2 hours, assuming they find a large bunch of herbs. This allows them to brew potions of curing (3d6 healing) fairly quickly and efficiently. Anything else, however, is prohibitively expensive for a party.
(I'm using the example from the document here, it's not the only example where it applies though) Yes, a party might be able to kill a unicorn and troll. They may even be able to successfully harvest their body parts. But for a single use of an 11mp spell? A potion which pushes fey 20 ft away from you (inside range for a cone attack anyways), but which the fey can overcome with a check and which lasts for only *a single hour* is rarer and worth more (quoted in the example as 6800GC) than a set of Masterwork Banded Mail Armour (300GC *10 + 500GC = 3500GC)? Unless you have a unicorn and troll farm and can spend weeks at a time harvesting critters and making potions, the alchemy system isn't very viable.
Enchanting has the same problem. How would anyone go about collecting a hundred unicorn horns, or the blood of a hundred trolls, or 680,000GC to make a set of armor with that property. By the time they could afford that, a mage in the party could give the effect to the whole party for a 1 day duration anyways, plus have the versatility of casting other spells that day and changing their spells each time.
I guess you could torture moles and pixies for 0mp tears, have a gem farm that brings you precious gems, and build the potion that way but to me it would be more like a facebook farming sim than an RPG at that point.
Possible fix: I don't have any suggestions on how to fix this one, but it's definitely broken how it is right now. What we did was just say "Take herbalism. Ignore Alchemy", but that's not really a long term fix.
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3) Gold Coin Calculations: While all characters are guaranteed at least 10 gold coins to start (minimum 1 luck *10, minimum 0 GC *60), there come up some troublesome issues with character creation on the tradition front. This isn't just an issue that came up yesterday; a couple of my regular players have run into it too. Some builds (E.g. Barbarian III, Berserker I) have absolutely no gold coins, but require equipment in order to be successful. I've gotten around this by houseruling that certain characters can take an improvised weapon at no cost, but that doesn't seem fair to the other players. Part of the issue is that the traditions that seem to get those most gold coins are the ones that get a bunch of free stuff anyways.
A la Grand Elven Page/Squire I/Man-at-arms I/Knight I/ Musketeer I. Starts with a set of high quality clothing, a free high quality sword, a free warhorse with free chainmail barding, a free musket, and a free pistol who also has a gold coin stat of 4 and luck of 7 ( higher of 3d6*20+40 or 280 GC ).
Compare that to an Ogre Primitive/Barbarian III/Berserker I, who has a gold coin stat of 0 and a luck of 2 ( 20 GC), no free equipment. I agree that they shouldn't have a whole bunch of gold coins lying around, but shouldn't they at least have enough to take a sword (even if it's crude and barbarian in nature)?
Possible fix: We ruled that if a character ends character creation with 0GC, give them gold coins equal to 60+10*luck (equal to a GC score of 1), but they aren't allowed to keep any of the gold after character generation.
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4) Berserkers: This is a small one. Berserkers are required to make a WILL check to rage, however neither barbarian (the per-requisite) or berserker itself increase your will check, and it's not a check an average human could make in the average situation, much less a below average one. For a Primitive, Barbarian III, Berserker I Ogre (what I would think would be a very suitable race for a berserker), it's impossible to make the check (2d6 on a DC 16 check). Same with a Berserker IV Orc (the alternate pre-requisite).
Possible fix: Give Barbarian and Berserker a +1 to Willpower. They're fairly low stat wise as it is anyways.
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Not big issues, but just things we came across and figured I should mention for posterity.
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1) Minimum Attributes: The rule under traditions states that no tradition can be taken if it would reduce an attribute below 1. While that makes sense for primary attributes SAEWICL (Strength, Agility, Endurance, Willpower, Intellect, Charisma, and Luck), for the secondary attributes which start at 0 (Reputation, Gold Coins/Credits, Magic, Psionics, ect.) shouldn't they be allowed to be modified back to 0?
She ran into that issue with a Burglar I (no rep), Archer I (no rep), Assassin I(+1 rep). She wanted to take Beggar I(-1 rep) as her 4th, but that would lower it back to 0.
Possible fix: What we did was just houserule that because it's a secondary stat it can be lowered to 0 rather than to 1. She couldn't have taken Assassin I, Beggar III because that would have given her a negative reputation, but she can lower it so she has a complete lack on reputation.
---
2) Alchemists: I understand that there are some changes to herbalism and alchemy on the way but since it's what we were able to test, here's our thoughts on the current system. With the way the current system is set up, a cantrip level effect can be recreated in potion form by a herbalist for next to no cost. Even a 2mp potion made by the herbalist can be mass brewed at a rate of 1 potion every 2 hours, assuming they find a large bunch of herbs. This allows them to brew potions of curing (3d6 healing) fairly quickly and efficiently. Anything else, however, is prohibitively expensive for a party.
(I'm using the example from the document here, it's not the only example where it applies though) Yes, a party might be able to kill a unicorn and troll. They may even be able to successfully harvest their body parts. But for a single use of an 11mp spell? A potion which pushes fey 20 ft away from you (inside range for a cone attack anyways), but which the fey can overcome with a check and which lasts for only *a single hour* is rarer and worth more (quoted in the example as 6800GC) than a set of Masterwork Banded Mail Armour (300GC *10 + 500GC = 3500GC)? Unless you have a unicorn and troll farm and can spend weeks at a time harvesting critters and making potions, the alchemy system isn't very viable.
Enchanting has the same problem. How would anyone go about collecting a hundred unicorn horns, or the blood of a hundred trolls, or 680,000GC to make a set of armor with that property. By the time they could afford that, a mage in the party could give the effect to the whole party for a 1 day duration anyways, plus have the versatility of casting other spells that day and changing their spells each time.
I guess you could torture moles and pixies for 0mp tears, have a gem farm that brings you precious gems, and build the potion that way but to me it would be more like a facebook farming sim than an RPG at that point.
Possible fix: I don't have any suggestions on how to fix this one, but it's definitely broken how it is right now. What we did was just say "Take herbalism. Ignore Alchemy", but that's not really a long term fix.
---
3) Gold Coin Calculations: While all characters are guaranteed at least 10 gold coins to start (minimum 1 luck *10, minimum 0 GC *60), there come up some troublesome issues with character creation on the tradition front. This isn't just an issue that came up yesterday; a couple of my regular players have run into it too. Some builds (E.g. Barbarian III, Berserker I) have absolutely no gold coins, but require equipment in order to be successful. I've gotten around this by houseruling that certain characters can take an improvised weapon at no cost, but that doesn't seem fair to the other players. Part of the issue is that the traditions that seem to get those most gold coins are the ones that get a bunch of free stuff anyways.
A la Grand Elven Page/Squire I/Man-at-arms I/Knight I/ Musketeer I. Starts with a set of high quality clothing, a free high quality sword, a free warhorse with free chainmail barding, a free musket, and a free pistol who also has a gold coin stat of 4 and luck of 7 ( higher of 3d6*20+40 or 280 GC ).
Compare that to an Ogre Primitive/Barbarian III/Berserker I, who has a gold coin stat of 0 and a luck of 2 ( 20 GC), no free equipment. I agree that they shouldn't have a whole bunch of gold coins lying around, but shouldn't they at least have enough to take a sword (even if it's crude and barbarian in nature)?
Possible fix: We ruled that if a character ends character creation with 0GC, give them gold coins equal to 60+10*luck (equal to a GC score of 1), but they aren't allowed to keep any of the gold after character generation.
---
4) Berserkers: This is a small one. Berserkers are required to make a WILL check to rage, however neither barbarian (the per-requisite) or berserker itself increase your will check, and it's not a check an average human could make in the average situation, much less a below average one. For a Primitive, Barbarian III, Berserker I Ogre (what I would think would be a very suitable race for a berserker), it's impossible to make the check (2d6 on a DC 16 check). Same with a Berserker IV Orc (the alternate pre-requisite).
Possible fix: Give Barbarian and Berserker a +1 to Willpower. They're fairly low stat wise as it is anyways.
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Not big issues, but just things we came across and figured I should mention for posterity.
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