A D&D relationship issue

[DM-Frost]

I'm a DM that is currently running a 3.5/homebrew campaign with four players. I've got a player who is heavily religious(christian). Let's call him Jake. This usually isn't a problem, as he normally keeps his values away from the table and, in fact, uses D&D to express thoughts and actions he wouldn't normally have/perform in real life. The problem is simply this:

He wants to bring his girlfriend(call her Jane) into the campaign. This wouldn't be a problem (I'm rather vigilant about making sure my players know that outside feelings do not belong at the table), except that Jake is rather obsessed with her, to the point that he would drastically change both his personality and play-style at the table if she were present (he already has some issues with keeping personal feelings away from the table and I have talked to him about it).

Jane is heavily religious also, you see, and she is the type of person who would NOT keep her religion and the game separate(to the point of asking if God is an available deity). This being established, she has conditions like "keeping the game PG," essentially meaning that she doesn't want us to curse or mention sex. I don't necessarily run a lewd or vulgar campaign; but am I really supposed to stop the battle-weary NPC dwarf from explaining that "Those damned drow killed my party!"? Should I really try to censor the lecherous half-elf PC from making a comment about a barmaid's cleavage?

I understand that the easiest way to fix this is just to say "No." But, as I stated, Jake is obsessed with Jane and would, most likely, take offense if I explained myself. I don't want to lose one of my players, but I don't want to lose what I've built in my campaign. I have an ambiance that both my players and I enjoy.

I've got a dilemma, and would enjoy any sort of help anyone can offer.
Thank you in advance.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

First, Welcome to ENWorld!

Sometimes, tough love is the best love.

Tell your buddy she's free to come in and join the game, but not until after you've explained to her that you're an adult running a game for adults: you're not going to change the way you run your game just for her, and you certainly won't ask others to tone things down. She simply isn't in a position to make you make that demand of others.

Instead, let HER come in and ask the others to tone things down to PG.

If they accommodate her wishes, so be it. If they look at her like a pink & green-striped Ettin doing donuts in a Dodge Viper while drinking straight from a bottle of 151, so be it. (Don't let it devolve into insults about her faith, etc., though.)

If she can't handle that, so be it- there are other game groups out there that might be more to her liking...especially if SHE hosts it.

If your buddy can't handle that, so be it.

Your job is to host & run a good fun game for a group, not just for your buddy and his (white-hot intense) flame du jour.

 

[RyvenCedrylle]

Does Jane even want to play? Has she played tabletop RPGs before? If it's just Jake dragging her along because he's crazy about her, this might all end without you having to do anything about it. If I were the GM and knew Jane was coming, I would talk to her myself, probably with Jake nearby and paying attention. You're talking to her, but really you're talking to both of them. Explain that this is an established campaign with an established cast and tone; she is welcome to play, but you all are not going to alter your playstyle for her or any other new player. What happens between the two of them is their own business - you are not and should not feel responsible. Also, if you do want her involved, I'd absolutely let her choose God as her deity if she so desires and assuming she's playing a cleric, let her pick a couple domains. I am a fairly religious man myself and would enjoy making her think about her faith in new ways using the game, but that may just be me.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Dannyalcatraz speaks wisdom, but I would add only one point to his.

Even if all the players do agree to her requests, your preferences count, too. If you're not going to enjoy running the game she wants, that's a deal-breaker right there, even if everyone else is okay with it.

Definitely explain to her the sort of game you're playing, and let her decide if she wants to join. But don't let fear of alienating one player ruin the game for the others--you included.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Actually, remember that I said:

ME
...but not until after you've explained to her that you're an adult running a game for adults: you're not going to change the way you run your game just for her...

I don't think the OP would mind if the other players toned things down as long as they didn't insist that he, too, should alter his behavior if he doesn't want to.

Or, to put it more clearly: whether things get cleaned up should be each individual's decision- just because everyone else goes PG doesn't mean the DM has to.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Or, to put it more clearly: whether things get cleaned up should be each individual's decision- just because everyone else goes PG doesn't mean the DM has to.

Ah, I gotcha. Then yes, we're on the same page.

 

[Jack7]

Instead, let HER come in and ask the others to tone things down to PG.

Good advice.

If it's just Jake dragging her along because he's crazy about her, this might all end without you having to do anything about it.

Certainly true.


I too am a Christian and I do not see RP games or Dungeons and Dragons as problematic to Christianity per se. (A lot of things in the earliest versions reflect specifically Christian ideals or concepts as a matter of fact - Resurrection, the Paladin, the Cleric, Healing miracles, etc) Of course a particular game or campaign which actively promoted evil ideals would bother me, but then again it might bother non-Christians as well, for good reasons (excuse the pun).

Like many things in life it just depends upon the way a thing is expressed or utilized as to whether it bothers me or my faith, though little does other than active and intentional evil, to which I'm opposed. I'm forgiving and kinda patient of most everything else.

I also run a primarily Christian campaign (centered around basically Christian ideals and most of my players are Christian) set in the Byzantine Empire. This allows people to specifically explore and even play their own religious faith, though they are also free to play non-Christians, etc. One reason I developed this setting or world was because my players asked for a setting that would allow them to play their own real world faiths. So that's one possibility, let people play their own faith and what is important to them.

Another is to allow them to play their own religious ideals if there is no room in your campaign for specific real world faiths. For sentence your players could play Paladins or Clerics or other classes or characters which basically reflect Christian ideals, but are not Christian per se, or Christian in name. They can play as a Christian, just wouldn't be called that. (Of course I also understand the idea of playing an evil character just to explore the idea of evil, but I think of that as a mental and not a psychological or behavioral exercise - that is one can play evil to explore the limitations and self-destructiveness of evil, and I have before - but that doesn't mean such characters have to necessarily be endangering, they can also be edifying and a good moral lesson in how not to really behave. Like seeing a movie about an evil and destructive character - it will often remind you of the wages of evil, rather than enticing you to do harm to others. So that can also be a sometimes useful exercise.)

That being said I think I might gently remind your players that like in the real world, you're D&D setting is filled with very imperfect creatures and characters. (Not to say Christians are perfect, they are not, I certainly am not, but the ideal is to live out certain ideals and principles as well as humanly possible). So, take for instance in my world, not everyone in the Empire is Christian, not everyone acts Christian, not everyone is motivated by Christian ideals, and even Christians fail on occasion, for good reasons or bad, concerning their behavioral intentions. And this is certainly true of those living outside the Empire as well. In other words it's probably as unlikely that one can play a perfectly Saintly character in a game as it is that one can be a perfectly Saintly individual in real life, though I got nothing against trying to be Saintly in perfect in either game or real life. As a matter of fact I encourage it, I just know it's a heavy effort.

So remind your players that not everyone is perfect (in fact no one is), and that even among those trying to live as Christians, you will on occasion fail. This will remind them to take a more realistic and pragmatic view of the imaginary world in which they live. Just compare the foibles of your imaginary settings and characters with the failures found in the real world and they can then probably relate to what they perceive as the moral or behavioral defects of the setting.

Of course if they have fundamental disagreements with the setting then you probably won't convince them anyways, but at least you tried. Assuming the real issue is their faith, which I have only your word for, and I'm not doubting your perception or your word, just saying sometimes people perceive things incorrectly or give reasons for things that sometimes cloak other things - it may just be their faith clashing with your particular setting, or it may be something else entirely. (It's force of habit from my detective work and experience to be skeptical of first appearances/explanations and limited one-party sources of information, so don't take that observation personally. I'm just considering all possibilities.)

So those are my suggestions. Present some solution along those lines that perhaps you can all live with. And of course I'd allow them to present their own ideas as well and see if a reasonable and workable solution can be reached. After all they might have already thought of something neither of us have. Maybe in that way you'll hit on something worthwhile or a workable accommodation for everybody. Maybe not, but ya never know til ya try.

Well, it's after midnight and I gotta hit the sack.

Anyways, good luck and Godspeed to ya.

 

[Dannager]

I definitely agree with what's been said: explain to her that she can come play in your game, but that she does not have the right to expect the dynamics of the game table to shift to accommodate her demands. Give her a rundown of how your game generally goes, invite her to come along, and then let her decide at the end of the day whether or not she is interested in playing in your game.

If she ultimately decides she isn't interested (which is what I would expect, if her "conditions" are really as strict as they've been made out to be), your friend Jake will have a much harder time blaming you for it - after all, it was her choice in the end.

 

[fanboy2000]

Something like this might be good: "Hey Jane! So, I heard you wanted to join the game, and there are a couple of things you might want to know. First is that we swear. I understand that you might be uncomfortable with that, and it's important that you know that going in. Now we don't swear every other word, but it does happen and I don't want you to be surprised.

The second thing is that this is a fantasy game where fantasy gods are worshiped. I don't know how important that might be to you, but it's a fundamental part of the game and you should understand that. If it helps, this isn't historical Earth. In fact, it's not Earth at all. If that doesn't help, I suggest that you think long and hard before joining the game."

Generally, you need to 1) inform her of things you think she might have a problem with, and 2) give her a chance to think about them and either mentally prepare herself of back-out.

With Jake, I highly suggest you say something like: "Hey Jake. I like having you in the group, but I'm a afraid that you're going to change how you play if I let Jane in. I really like the way you play your character and I don't want you change because someone else is here."

After you say that, Jake will profusely assure you that he won't change the way the he plays if Jane comes in. Of course, he will change his play style, but he'll be aware of it and will try not to.

If Jake and Jane are aware of your concern, they'll take that into account before having Jane join. Also, they'll have to decide if they're willing overcome your reservations.

Alternatively, if your not willing to risk Jane ruining your game, you can just say no. When asked why, give the same reasoning you gave us: "I have an ambiance that both [the other] players and I enjoy."

 

[Quickleaf]

Generally, you need to 1) inform her of things you think she might have a problem with, and 2) give her a chance to think about them and either mentally prepare herself of back-out.

Having been in a very similar situation before, I agree with fanboy. I also would add that you might want to screen Jane's compatability with the group at a potluck or any non-D&D activity your group does together. Or if you're positive you're going to welcome her to the group already, have her sit in on a session as an observor (keep this session short) and see if she's interested in joining after watching your style of game.