A GMing telling the players about the gameworld is not like real life

[Bedrockgames]

I'm sure there are plenty of players who enjoy the GM decides approach - this thread isn't about whether or not it's enjoyable, it's about clear analysis of where authority lies in establishing RPG fiction and outcomes.

This is where you are being disingenuous and I am not buying this post at all. All of these arguments have been about you advocating a playstyle preference. And you are using as your starting point, an off-the-cuff, casual remark, in order to build a straw man (where as I pointed out posters are cornered into defending the absurd position that the real world and the game world are exactly the same and follow the same processes). This was already covered earlier in the thread. If it isn't about playstyle advocacy, then you should have been discussing GM authority from the very outset, and you should have been capable of explaining why you think people might gravitate toward games with greater Gm Authority. Instead this whole discussion is a straw man built around a pejorative term and framed almost as a matter of morality. But if you are going to shift this argument to be one about whether the tea house scenario has nothing more to do with one-sided authority than real life, well your argument completely falls apart. In real life, I have zero authorship over such events. In a game where the GM decides, I can do much more to influence the GM's ultimate decision. In a case where I have to pick between trying to assert some kind of authority over reality, versus the GM, I pick the latter.

 

[Bedrockgames]

A pretty clear claim was made - that GM decides outcome of an action declaratoin about looking for sect members is no more "Mother may I" than real life.
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And again, want to point out for like the fifth time, I was making this statement very casually and wasn't asserting they were identical. You then took this small post and started a whole thread expecting me to defend the literal meaning of the words (which I repeatedly told you wasn't what I was trying to say). Further, I told you from the outset, I didn't like having my post singled out and turned into a thread.

 

[pemerton]

What seemed odd to me was that pemerton took issue with the way something was phrased, and then started a new thread about it.

With respect, this is a misapprehension on your part. I wasn't taking issue with phrasing. I don't care about terminology. I'm taking issue with a claim about the features of a certain GMing technique.

 

[pemerton]

This is where you are being disingenuous and I am not buying this post at all.

Seriously? I've been ignoring most of this stuff throughout this thread - but you're the guy who some years ago now was up to his armpits in a "How to Fight a Forgist" thread on another site that you moderate, which was not about any sort of dispassionate analysis but all about attacking someone (ie me) with playstyle preferences different from yours and your site's.

So mabye you're projecting your animus against me?

 

[Numidius]

Regardless of playstyles preferences, I believe that allocation of authority, equity in realism if Gm decides vs Pc check decides etc is something that the next generation of mainstream rpgs should address upfront in their core rules design

 

[Bedrockgames]

In a conversation about transport modes, if someone says "I ride my bike because I need to get from A to B" that tends to imply that other modes (eg walking) aren't so good at getting from A to B. Alternatively, if someone thought that walking was as good as riding for getting from A to B, then they would (I think) be unlikely to point to it gets me from A to B as a reason in favour of riding rather than walking.

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In a normal conversation there isn’t such an implication. You have to squint real hard. If someone says that, I assume there are other reasons behind it (speed and affordability perhaps), rather than a blanket statement about being better than other modes of transportation.

 

[S'mon]

With respect, this is a misapprehension on your part. I wasn't taking issue with phrasing. I don't care about terminology. I'm taking issue with a claim about the features of a certain GMing technique.

Well 61 pages in, this continued laser focus does rather make you look like you're quite far up on the autism spectrum Mr P.

 

[pemerton]

if you are going to shift this argument to be one about whether the tea house scenario has nothing more to do with one-sided authority than real life, well your argument completely falls apart. In real life, I have zero authorship over such events. In a game where the GM decides, I can do much more to influence the GM's ultimate decision. In a case where I have to pick between trying to assert some kind of authority over reality, versus the GM, I pick the latter.

And you think it's pejorative to call this "Mother may I"? Should we call it "Playing the GM" instead?

 

[pemerton]

Well 61 pages in, this continued laser focus does rather make you look like you're quite far up on the autism spectrum Mr P.

I'm a humanities academic - what do you expect?

 

[Bedrockgames]

Seriously? I've been ignoring most of this stuff throughout this thread - but you're the guy who some years ago now was up to his armpits in a "How to Fight a Forgist" thread on another site that you moderate, which was not about any sort of dispassionate analysis but all about attacking someone (ie me) with playstyle preferences different from yours and your site's.

So mabye you're projecting your animus against me?

Pemerton, I am on record saying if the forge gives value to your gaming, by all means use it. My only issue with the forge is some of its more aggressive proponents (people who engage in the kind of tactics you have used on this thread). Frankly I think that kind of behavior does more to tarnish the forges reputation than any of its actual ideas. I don’t personally find a lot of use in Forge theory. But that is just my personal preference. It is a model for understanding RPGs and I can see how some find value in that. And by the way, I’ve spent the past several years engaging people directly at Story-Games.com in order to get a better understanding of that side of the debate. For the record, I am no longer a mod at Therpgsite (though my reasons for not being a mod, have nothing to do with this issue). If you are truly curious about playstyle differences, I suggest checking out forums where immersion, plausibility and GM decides are the norm and posting there (posting at Story-games.com has certainly shaken up many of my assumptions about other playstyles).