A more gestalt approach to multiclassing

[Planeswalker Maloran]

Under the traditional method of creating multiclass characters, some combinations are overpowered and others suffer greatly for their diversity. Saving throws can reach ridiculous heights, and spellcasters advance dreadfully slowly. As an alternative, I created a different system for multiclassing, which treats multiclass characters much like gestalt characters, and balances their advancement with that of single-class characters. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

BASICS
Unlike in the standard system, the hit dice and hit points, base attack bonus, base saving throw bonuses, and spells per day of one class do not stack with those of another class. Only the highest applies. Skill points are gained at each level of each class. Only the character's primary class grants x4 skill points at first level, however.

STARTING OUT
Every character begins with one level in its primary class (chosen by the player), and one level in the race's favored class. If the primary class is also the favored class, the character may either begin with one level of a secondary class of the player's choice, or begin with only a level of the favored class but gain a bonus feat (in addition to the feat already gained as a first level character). If the favored class of the character's race is “any,” the character may choose his favored class. Every character must have one (and only one) favored class.

Author's Note: I have always felt that a race's favored class should either mean something, or be removed from the game entirely. In this case, the first level of the race's favored class is considered to be part of the basic education given to all members of the race as they grow up. A character raised by a race other than his own gains the favored class of his adoptive race, in place of his true race's favored class. A race such as humans, whose favored class is “any,” does not have a single widespread educational system. Instead, the character's favored class should be related to his childhood history.

ADVANCEMENT
As a character earns experience, she may spend it to gain higher levels in the primary class or in any other class the character has levels in. A character's primary class is whichever class she has the most levels in. If she has more than one class tied for the most levels, the next one she chooses to advance becomes the primary class.

A character's primary class costs a number of experience points to advance equal to 1000 times its current level (or effective level; see below). Advancing another class costs 1000 times its current level (or effective level), plus 500 for each class (not counting the character's favored class) that is higher level than the class being advanced. The character's favored class always costs 1000 times its current level, no matter what level it is compared to other classes.

A character gains a feat when her primary class reaches a level divisible by three, and an ability point when her primary class reaches a level divisible by four. In addition, she gains a feat when a class other than her primary class reaches a level divisible by (3 + the number of classes that are equal or higher level than the class granting the feat), and an ability point when a class other than her primary class reaches a level divisible by (4 + the number of classes that are equal or higher level than the class granting the ability point).

The first level of any character class cannot be gained through experience. With the DM's permission, a character may be trained in the first level of a new class. This usually costs money, and requires a significant amount of time. The DM may allow the character to spend a feat to learn the class quickly, with only a week of training.

SPELLS PER DAY/ SPELL POINTS
If a character has levels in multiple spellcasting classes, he may cast a number of spells per day of any given spell level equal to the highest number of spells per day of that level granted by any of his classes. Bonus spells per day are still granted by high ability modifiers, for the relevant types of spellcasting. If a character has one class that prepares spells and another that can cast spontaneously, he may lose any prepared spell to cast any spell of equal or lower level that he can spontaneously cast. However, if his relevant spellcasting ability modifiers are different, he cannot prepare or spontaneously cast more spells than would normally be allowed by his level and relevant ability modifier.

For example: Daros is a 3rd level wizard / 3rd level sorcerer with an Intelligence of 16 and a charisma of 12. He has 6 0-level spells, 4 1st level spells, and 1 2nd level spell which may be prepared or spontaneously cast. However, he can only spontaneously cast up to 1st level spells. In addition, he may prepare one additional 1st and 2nd level spell, because of his Intelligence bonus. He may also spontaneously cast an additional 1st level spell, because of his Charisma bonus. So if he prepared two 2nd level spells, he could lose one of them to spontaneously cast a first level spell. He could not lose them both, because his Charisma bonus is not high enough to allow him to spontaneously cast two 2nd level spells.

NPC CLASSES
Like favored classes, NPC classes never give or receive an experience penalty due to multiclassing.

EFFECTIVE LEVEL AND RACIAL HIT DICE
A character's effective level in any class is usually equal to her level in that class, but some circumstances can change her effective level. Effects that depend on class level (such as the uses per day of bardic music, duration of wild shape, and caster level of spells) are based on her effective level, if it is different than her class level. Effects that depend on overall character level are based on the effective level of her highest class, plus one for every 5 levels of other classes she has.

If a character has a level adjustment, it is added the effective level of all her classes.

Racial hit dice count as NPC class levels, and thus never count against the character's hero class levels.

PRESTIGE CLASSES
Gaining a level in a prestige class costs the same amount of experience as it would cost to advance the character's primary class. Prestige class levels are added to the effective level of all the character's classes. All benefits gained from prestige class levels stack with those gained from other classes. This includes hit dice and hit points, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses, which normally overlap instead of stacking.

 

[Nifft]

Under the traditional method of creating multiclass characters, some combinations are overpowered

What do you mean by this?

Aside from saving throws (which are trivial to fix), what grows faster than it would for regular single-class characters?

Cheers, -- N

 

[Will]

This approach seems to be significantly more complicated than a regular gestalt approach, for no apparent gain.

 

[Meeki]

This doesn't really seem to "fix" what you claim to be broken with multiclassing. Just seems to be a more complicated gestalt light approach.

BTW Feats and stat bumps are gained per HD not per level.

 

[Planeswalker Maloran]

What do you mean by this?

Aside from saving throws (which are trivial to fix), what grows faster than it would for regular single-class characters?

Cheers, -- N

For example, a Monk with high Dexterity and Wisdom, and one Sorcerer level for Mage Armor and Shield, gets ridiculous armor class without having to spend any money for it, and only slightly delaying his Monk abilities. A monk/rogue adds sneak attack damage to all his flurry-of-blows attacks when flanking his enemy. Traditionally, Monks who take other class levels cannot continue to advance in Monk levels; but taking the Ascetic Rogue feat (or other Ascetic feats) from Complete Adventurer solves this nicely. And even without them, there's nothing to stop a first-level Rogue or Sorcerer from then becoming a Monk.

Of course, you could house rule that Monks can't be multiclassed, but there are other combinations that get nasty too. For instance, Warlock/Rogue. Take the Invocation that gives you +6 to Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate checks; take the feat Improved feint, take the Hideous Blow invocation, and put maximum ranks in Bluff. Except for the rare occasion when you fight someone with high Sense Motive, you can make one attack per round that deals full Sneak Attack and Eldritch Blast damage, even when you aren't flanking. Particularly at low levels, that's severely broken.

I could list plenty of other examples if you want, but that could become its own thread.

Admittedly, these are still possible with the new system, but they do not also gain the other benefits of the level (hit points, saves, etc.), and unless they start out this way at first level, they need to spend money and have significant downtime to accomplish it. Also, only humans and half-elves can start with two classes of their choice (favored class: any). Alternately, a favored class could be assigned to human and half-elf to prevent such combinations in the first place.

This approach seems to be significantly more complicated than a regular gestalt approach, for no apparent gain.

The gain is that it is more versatile than simply playing a gestalt character, because you can have multiple classes, and more levels in one than another if you want. The other gain is that it strives to remain balanced with single-class advancement. If you ran a gestalt character in a campaign with single-class characters, the gestalt character would be significantly higher powered. You could apply an experience penalty, but that's effectively what this system does. You create a custom (albeit slightly more complicated) gestalt, and still remain balanced with the rest of the party.

One complaint I've heard about multiclassing is that, while base attack bonus (and most other class-granted abilities) stack, spellcasting power does not. A Bard who wants to improve his combat ability can take a couple of Fighter levels, but a Bard who wants to improve his spellcasting ability is stuck. Sure, taking a Sorcerer level or two will give him a few more first-level spells (and a lot more spells per day, but that can only be used for his Sorcerer spells), but it'll also delay his higher-level spells (which are already late in coming) for two more levels. No gain whatsoever. Under this new system, it would give him more spells per day that could be used for either Bard or Sorcerer spells, with very little delay to his higher level Bard spells.

BTW Feats and stat bumps are gained per HD not per level.

True, but hit dice and levels are practically synonymous. And since this system treats racial hit dice as NPC class levels, there is nothing that would provide you with hit dice and not with levels. (Taking secondary class levels does not raise your total hit dice or effective level, but it does give you hit dice. They just don't stack with the hit dice of your primary class.)

 

[airwalkrr]

I think it works... I think. Now I love discussions on fixing what I consider to be the biggest eyesore of 3rd edition rules, but this method left me a little bit confused. Halfway through reading it, I felt that it was getting to be too much to keep track of. That said, I think it would work out ok. What I mean is I do not see any loopholes to make it too over or underpowered. My problem is that it is a bit out in left field. It is somewhat like AD&D yet it adds in some 3e rules in incongruous ways. Ultimately, it lacks the simplicity that is the hallmark (and only silver lining) of 3e multiclassing, and that alone unfortunately makes it unappealing to me.

I prefer using AD&D multiclassing rules myself, minus racial level limits (for PCs anyway). Some feel it is a bit too restrictive, but I like the way it reinforces class roles.

 

[robberbaron]

Are you distinguishing between Arcane and Divine or are Wizard/Clerics just as screwed as Wizard/Sorcerers? Why would anyone be a Wizard/Sorcerer anyway?

Seems a bit unfair to someone who wants to play their favoured class alone. Am I right in inferring that you are effectively forcing multi-classing?

 

[Planeswalker Maloran]

Are you distinguishing between Arcane and Divine or are Wizard/Clerics just as screwed as Wizard/Sorcerers? Why would anyone be a Wizard/Sorcerer anyway?

Seems a bit unfair to someone who wants to play their favoured class alone. Am I right in inferring that you are effectively forcing multi-classing?

I am not differentiating between Arcane and Divine for Spells Per Day. My reasoning is, although the deity gives your the Divine spells, it is your own spellcasting ability that lets you cast them. Otherwise, a 1st level cleric should be able to cast True Resurrection just as easily as a 17th level cleric, if all the power was supplied by the deity. Thus the individual's spellcasting ability must play a role also, so it still uses the character's highest spells-per-day. So yeah, wizard/clerics are "just as screwed", though they're still a lot less screwed than a wizard/cleric multiclass in standard D&D.

With this system, one would want to play a wizard/sorcerer to gain more spells per day. In the normal system, one might play a wizard/sorcerer to gain a few combat spells that could be used several times per day, along with several utility spells that could be prepared and used as needed.

The only forced multiclass is one level of your race's favored class (assuming that's not your primary class, in which case you're not forced to take anything else). The level is effectively free, so even though it is forced, you don't lose anything by gaining it. If someone wants to play their primary class straight through, they get the fairly substantial bonus of not having to spend any experience on other classes. Thus a single-class character does not gain as many abilities, but advances faster.

The way it works out, it takes twice as much experience to level two classes as to level one. So, an elven fighter/wizard with 6000 exp would have three levels of each class (assuming even progression). Since the hit dice, saves, and base attack from multiple classes don't stack, he would effectively be a 3rd level fighter/wizard gestalt. On the other hand, a single-class halfling rogue with 6000 exp would be 4th level, and have an additional feat (from chosing to take only one class).

 

[Planeswalker Maloran]

Some feel it is a bit too restrictive, but I like the way it reinforces class roles.

That's where we disagree, I guess. I don't like anything that reinforces class roles, rather than letting you play outside the box. I prefer to build characters that use their class in a completely odd way, like a sorcerer whose spells and feats are geared towards primary melee combat, or a rogue with max ranks in Use Magic Device (and a large collection of wands and scrolls) who plays like a wizard. In the last campaign I played in, my rogue was the party healer, and that's the way I like it. I prefer a system that allows even the strangest combinations to work, rather than one that reinforces class roles.

EDIT: Even if it is a lot more complicated. After all, nobody complained that AD&D was too complicated. If they didn't want to deal with it, they played basic instead. My group doesn't typically mind a little extra complexity, as long as it gives them more options.

 

[robberbaron]

OK, I've reread the OP to make sure I read it right first time.

A player has to take 2 different classes at the start (primary + favoured or favoured/primary + secondary) or take only the favoured class and get a free feat. Whoopdedoo, can't see many people taking the last option.

Why not allow 2 levels in a primary class if it happens to be your favoured one?

Why should, say, an Elf Ranger be forced to take a level of Wizard when he'd much rather have 2 levels of Ranger?

Sorry, but I can't see what you think you are gaining by imposing an extra 'flavour class'.

Overall, too complicated for my taste.