a question on magic items

[Gicko]

So I’ve been fiddling around with an idea in my head, and after looking through the pathfinder core rulebook, I found two enchantments that I like. Thing is, I’m not sure if they would be balanced.

Hears what I’m thinking.

Two rouges (twins) each holding two daggers; each of these two daggers will be enchanted with one of the following enchantments:



Holy:

A holy weapon is imbued with holy power. This power makes the weapon good aligned and thus bypasses the corresponding damage reduction*. It deals an extra 2d6 points of damage against all creatures of evil alignment. It bestows one permanent negative level on any evil creature attempting to wield it. The negative level remains as long as the weapon is in hand and disappears when the weapon is no longer wielded. This negative level cannot be overcome in any way (including by restoration spells) while the weapon is wielded.
Moderate evocation [good] CL 7th; Craft Magic Arms and Armour, holy smite, creator must be good; Price +2 bonus

* What dose this mean? If a creature has a DR/good, then it bypasses it?


Unholy:

An unholy weapon is imbued with unholy power. This power makes the weapon evil-aligned and thus bypasses the corresponding damage reduction*. It deals an extra 2d6 points of damage against all creatures of good alignment. It bestows one permanent negative level on any good creature attempting to wield it. The negative level remains as long as the weapon is in hand and disappears when the weapon is no longer wielded. This negative level cannot be overcome in any way (including by restoration spells) while the weapon is wielded.
Moderate necromancy; CL 9th; Craft Magic Arms and Armour, unholy blight, creator must be evil; price +2 bonus**

* Same question. Dose this mean creatures with DR/evil take full damage?

** I’m assuming these parts are for characters that want to make this item in game. Is this true?


Now, I’m planning on having daggers with these enhancements (1 of each) dual-wielded by a pair of level 3 neutral rouges. Would this be overpowered?

Also. The spells (unholy blight and holy smite) are those just prerequisites to enchant an in game item, or would these weapons get give the same affect if the characters had the right CL?

And that’s all I can think of at the moment. Let me know if you can help! Thanks.

 

[Jhaelen]

There's a problem with your ideas: Rouge cannot hold daggers (though maybe daggers could hold rouge...)

 

[Anguish]

I've only got a few minutes edgewise, so I can only offer a few details right at the moment.

Bottom line: yes, very, very over-powered. First of all, you can't add any enhancement to a magic item until it's already a +1 weapon. So, your daggers have to have +1 first. They'd be +1 holy dagger for instance. That's a total of a +3 enhancement. That's 18,000gp worth of enhancing. Plus they have to be masterwork first. Another 300gp. You're handing two of these to each rogue. Nearly 74,000gp worth of gear. For third level rogues. The table on page 399 tells you that a 3rd-level character should have 3,000gp worth of gear.

74,000gp > 3,000gp

Overpowered. Dramatically. Call us back when your characters hit 11th or 12th level.

Otherwise, I've got enough time to explain about the spells involved. Spells used as requirements to craft magic items do what the spells do. Read the spell descriptions in the book to find out what they do. As requirements, they're just what's needed as a component in the making. So for instance, you can use fireball to make a flaming weapon. The weapon cannot cast fireball, ever. The weapon does what flaming says it does: add +1d6 fire damage to each successful attack. The person who made the weapon had to give it a source of fire, hence the requirement that he or she scrape up someone willing to cast fireball into the weapon as it was crafted.

Anyway, that's about what I can write right now.

 

[freyar]

As to the first question, holy weapons bypass DR/good and unholy weapons bypass DR/evil.

But yes, these would be way too much at 3rd level.

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

daggers

To clarify, the reason you don't want to feature powerful magic items at low levels is that you can depend on your PCs getting them , which means that they will be more powerful than 'expected' for their level , which will mean that they can take on tougher monsters and get even more powerful items...it cascades.

Powerful magic items in low level play tend to 1) steal the show from the PCs and 2) make them into 'glass cannons' with a lot of offense but no corresponding defense.

One thing you could do if you wanted to keep your idea would be to make the daggers holy/unholy powers only function the first time they hit the appropriate creature each day. That would go a long way towards making them level-appropriate.

Ken

 

[Starbuck_II]

So I’ve been fiddling around with an idea in my head, and after looking through the pathfinder core rulebook, I found two enchantments that I like. Thing is, I’m not sure if they would be balanced.

Hears what I’m thinking.

Two rouges (twins) each holding two daggers; each of these two daggers will be enchanted with one of the following enchantments:



Holy:

A holy weapon is imbued with holy power. This power makes the weapon good aligned and thus bypasses the corresponding damage reduction*. It deals an extra 2d6 points of damage against all creatures of evil alignment. It bestows one permanent negative level on any evil creature attempting to wield it. The negative level remains as long as the weapon is in hand and disappears when the weapon is no longer wielded. This negative level cannot be overcome in any way (including by restoration spells) while the weapon is wielded.
Moderate evocation [good] CL 7th; Craft Magic Arms and Armour, holy smite, creator must be good; Price +2 bonus

* What dose this mean? If a creature has a DR/good, then it bypasses it?


Unholy:

An unholy weapon is imbued with unholy power. This power makes the weapon evil-aligned and thus bypasses the corresponding damage reduction*. It deals an extra 2d6 points of damage against all creatures of good alignment. It bestows one permanent negative level on any good creature attempting to wield it. The negative level remains as long as the weapon is in hand and disappears when the weapon is no longer wielded. This negative level cannot be overcome in any way (including by restoration spells) while the weapon is wielded.
Moderate necromancy; CL 9th; Craft Magic Arms and Armour, unholy blight, creator must be evil; price +2 bonus**

* Same question. Dose this mean creatures with DR/evil take full damage?

** I’m assuming these parts are for characters that want to make this item in game. Is this true?


Now, I’m planning on having daggers with these enhancements (1 of each) dual-wielded by a pair of level 3 neutral rouges. Would this be overpowered?

Also. The spells (unholy blight and holy smite) are those just prerequisites to enchant an in game item, or would these weapons get give the same affect if the characters had the right CL?

And that’s all I can think of at the moment. Let me know if you can help! Thanks.

Could you explain why and what purpose they have these daggers?
Potions (Oil) of align weapon (1 good and 1 evil) will let them bypass DR if that is fear (and cheaper and more affordable).

Another idea is use Magic Item Comprehendruim augment crystals (they attach to the weapon until removed) that grant DR bypassing (I think lesser Crystals does). Much cheaper (but require weapon to be enhanced to a certain degree: masterwork for least crystals, +1 for lesser, and +3 for greater.

They are better as loot when rogues lose even.

 

[Gicko]

well i really just wanted to have a while yin-yang thing going with the daggers. but since they are overpowered, ill need to think of something else. maby daggers that only deal bonus damage to a spesific spicies....

 

[billd91]

well i really just wanted to have a while yin-yang thing going with the daggers. but since they are overpowered, ill need to think of something else. maby daggers that only deal bonus damage to a spesific spicies....

You're still going to end up with the basic problem: gear more powerful than you'd expect to see on a 3rd level rogue. In this case, the weapons would be at least +2 equivalent because you're looking at a bane weapon (+1 minimum, +1 equivalent for bane) at 8300 gp each, 16600 gp per rogue. And that's still a lot (even if it's not as much as the 36600/rogue in the first example).

Now, all these comments about level-appropriateness aside, your game is your game. Putting in an extra powerful dagger or 4 is not likely to break the game (particularly bane ones compared to holy/unholy). For most PCs, daggers end up as secondary weapons at best (probably tertiary).

A bigger concern has to do with how replaceable magic items are in your campaign. If they can cash these in for their own custom gear easily, then they'll be more trouble for your campaign's balance than if they're simply powerful backup weapons. You can bet on them being sold and turned into items more useful to the PCs.

 

[coyote6]

If you want a yin/yang kind of thing, how about having the daggers made out of some kind of special metal (or other material) that does an extra point of damage? I believe Magic of Faerun had fever iron, which did an extra point of fire damage; use that, and make up your own ("ice steel") that does +1 hp cold damage. Or make up materials that deal positive & negative energy damage (note: neither should be capable of healing anyone, living or undead -- otherwise, you'll be giving infinite healing).

Fever iron is +1500 gp to the price of a weapon, but the daggers don't have to be magical, which would make the daggers 1502 gp each (IIRC, fever iron, like adamantium or mithral, is automatically masterwork, so you don't have to add that). 3004 gp is still a lot for a 3rd level rogue, but it won't break your game! If the PCs sell it, they'll get a big 1500 gp reward.

You could also just decide the material is cheaper, or that the daggers only sell for 1/3rd or whatever. Maybe the style of the daggers is unmistakabley associated with some scary assassin's guild, and no one wants to anger them; so the daggers are "hot", and that lowers the price.

 

[Gicko]

You're still going to end up with the basic problem: gear more powerful than you'd expect to see on a 3rd level rogue. In this case, the weapons would be at least +2 equivalent because you're looking at a bane weapon (+1 minimum, +1 equivalent for bane) at 8300 gp each, 16600 gp per rogue. And that's still a lot (even if it's not as much as the 36600/rogue in the first example).

Drow Dagger of darkness: 1d4 + 1 damage, additional +1 when fighting lawful-good creatures

Elvin knife of light: 1d4 +1 damage, additional +1 when fighting chaotic evil creatures



I honestly don’t see how either of these could be overpowered. They are simple +1 weapons; so far all my characters have one (with the exception of a spiked chain form of a weapon, which is 2d4+2) with a non-specific magical effect that deals additional +1 damage against one specific alignment.


Both of these weapons are ancestral weapons for the characters, passed down from generation to generation. They are also the only magical weapons in the village. Therefore, they would have no need to pay for them.