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A quick look at Intimidate: the D&D wunderskill
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<blockquote data-quote="Felix" data-source="post: 3135732" data-attributes="member: 3929"><p>I'm at your table and I say, "I want to intimidate him into abdicating his throne".</p><p></p><p>As written this wouldn't work, because this is not within the realm of things a friend would do. But if you disallow the DM the right to adjudicate exactly what happens, then whose hands to you put it in?</p><p></p><p></p><p>If the rule is, "someone will say exactly what happens, but it doesn't matter who", then this is about as sloppy and potentially troublesome a rule as I've encountered.</p><p></p><p>If the rule is, "We decide beforehand if the player, the whole group, or the DM decides the result of the roll", then you're back where you started. Except it's the DMs job to decide what his NPCs do for the entire game; why should this skill be any different?</p><p></p><p>Should, "I intimidate him into giving me one of his cookies" and "I intimidate him into abdicating the throne" have the same DC? If yes, I have serious disagreements that it requires the same amount of intimidation to accomplish those two tasks. If no, then who determines the DC when the player states what he wants to do with the roll? The DM? Well, then you're still putting the decision over what happens in the DMs hands.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Trusting the DM means, among other things, having faith that he will role-play his NPCs according to the motivations he ascribed to them when he created them.</p><p></p><p>If you do not believe that the DM is capable of role-playing his NPCs faithfully (which is why you'd want to take the response to Intimidate out of his hands) then you have a trust issue. Creating rules to relieve him of his decision-making powers will not fix that; likely it will aggrivate the problem if the DM sees this as a problem with people trusting him.</p><p></p><p>So at its fundament, having a problem with DM fiat means there's a problem with trusting the DM. (By the way, I fully believe that there are some DMs who cannot be trusted. It doesn't make this less of a trust issue.) And if this trust problem is large enough, then it <em>may</em> very well be banging your head against the wall trying to play with him. So, if you don't trust your DM, why play with him? In other words,</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Felix, post: 3135732, member: 3929"] I'm at your table and I say, "I want to intimidate him into abdicating his throne". As written this wouldn't work, because this is not within the realm of things a friend would do. But if you disallow the DM the right to adjudicate exactly what happens, then whose hands to you put it in? If the rule is, "someone will say exactly what happens, but it doesn't matter who", then this is about as sloppy and potentially troublesome a rule as I've encountered. If the rule is, "We decide beforehand if the player, the whole group, or the DM decides the result of the roll", then you're back where you started. Except it's the DMs job to decide what his NPCs do for the entire game; why should this skill be any different? Should, "I intimidate him into giving me one of his cookies" and "I intimidate him into abdicating the throne" have the same DC? If yes, I have serious disagreements that it requires the same amount of intimidation to accomplish those two tasks. If no, then who determines the DC when the player states what he wants to do with the roll? The DM? Well, then you're still putting the decision over what happens in the DMs hands. Trusting the DM means, among other things, having faith that he will role-play his NPCs according to the motivations he ascribed to them when he created them. If you do not believe that the DM is capable of role-playing his NPCs faithfully (which is why you'd want to take the response to Intimidate out of his hands) then you have a trust issue. Creating rules to relieve him of his decision-making powers will not fix that; likely it will aggrivate the problem if the DM sees this as a problem with people trusting him. So at its fundament, having a problem with DM fiat means there's a problem with trusting the DM. (By the way, I fully believe that there are some DMs who cannot be trusted. It doesn't make this less of a trust issue.) And if this trust problem is large enough, then it [i]may[/i] very well be banging your head against the wall trying to play with him. So, if you don't trust your DM, why play with him? In other words, [/QUOTE]
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A quick look at Intimidate: the D&D wunderskill
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