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A quick look at Intimidate: the D&D wunderskill
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<blockquote data-quote="Felix" data-source="post: 3135963" data-attributes="member: 3929"><p>Yes, I agree with you; that would be unfair. This possibility does not mean that the control of the NPC should be taken out of the DMs hands. It is bordering on the unfair to rule that the DM does not know enough about the motivations and conditions to adjudicate how the NPC reacts. The DM knows more about the NPCs than the PCs do, so how would you think placing the NPC reaction in the PCs' hands would improve the situation?</p><p></p><p></p><p>If the King were a Paladin, would you ask me if it were ok that he be immune to Intimidate because of his class feature, or would you just say, "He smirks and asks you to be more polite". As a player, I would rather not know the ins-and-outs of every NPC; it maintains an air of mystery and discovery. Which would you rather your DM say to you?</p><p></p><p>Or would you house rule that paladins are suseptable to Intimidate, too?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure. But just as a player cannot say, "When I roll this attack, if I hit, the enemy is decapitated", he cannot by himself determine how an NPC reacts to his intimidation tactics. He can determine the method of intimidation, and by his focus on the skill, he can determine the influence he can exert (represented by his total skill modifier) on the NPC.</p><p></p><p>But he can not determine how another character reacts in the same way he cannot determine that his sword is arbitrarily vorpal.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Actually, since the DM determines the AC (which you don't know), unless you roll a 20 (and sometimes not even then), you may not hit at all. </p><p></p><p>But assuming you hit: what effect that hit has is different from saying that you hit. It might be that one hit kills him - or simply pisses the NPC off; that reaction, which is the same reaction the DM must provide in Intimidate checks, is out of the PCs' hands wholesale.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I suggest that if the whole world is affected by this "shared authorship" paradigm, the players' experience will suffer from the lack of suprise and awe because they themselves helped create the world.</p><p></p><p>I suggest this because if the DM is unable to determine the reactions of the NPCs, then the players must necessairly be aware of the NPCs' abilities and powers and such knowledge is utterly unreasonable. They must know that the King has a <em>Mind Blank</em> effect on his throne if they are going to accept the fact that they cannot intimidate him, otherwise they'll complain that the DM is "breaking the rules" by disallowing the PCs to do cool things.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Felix, post: 3135963, member: 3929"] Yes, I agree with you; that would be unfair. This possibility does not mean that the control of the NPC should be taken out of the DMs hands. It is bordering on the unfair to rule that the DM does not know enough about the motivations and conditions to adjudicate how the NPC reacts. The DM knows more about the NPCs than the PCs do, so how would you think placing the NPC reaction in the PCs' hands would improve the situation? If the King were a Paladin, would you ask me if it were ok that he be immune to Intimidate because of his class feature, or would you just say, "He smirks and asks you to be more polite". As a player, I would rather not know the ins-and-outs of every NPC; it maintains an air of mystery and discovery. Which would you rather your DM say to you? Or would you house rule that paladins are suseptable to Intimidate, too? Sure. But just as a player cannot say, "When I roll this attack, if I hit, the enemy is decapitated", he cannot by himself determine how an NPC reacts to his intimidation tactics. He can determine the method of intimidation, and by his focus on the skill, he can determine the influence he can exert (represented by his total skill modifier) on the NPC. But he can not determine how another character reacts in the same way he cannot determine that his sword is arbitrarily vorpal. Actually, since the DM determines the AC (which you don't know), unless you roll a 20 (and sometimes not even then), you may not hit at all. But assuming you hit: what effect that hit has is different from saying that you hit. It might be that one hit kills him - or simply pisses the NPC off; that reaction, which is the same reaction the DM must provide in Intimidate checks, is out of the PCs' hands wholesale. I suggest that if the whole world is affected by this "shared authorship" paradigm, the players' experience will suffer from the lack of suprise and awe because they themselves helped create the world. I suggest this because if the DM is unable to determine the reactions of the NPCs, then the players must necessairly be aware of the NPCs' abilities and powers and such knowledge is utterly unreasonable. They must know that the King has a [i]Mind Blank[/i] effect on his throne if they are going to accept the fact that they cannot intimidate him, otherwise they'll complain that the DM is "breaking the rules" by disallowing the PCs to do cool things. [/QUOTE]
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