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A quick look at Intimidate: the D&D wunderskill
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<blockquote data-quote="buzz" data-source="post: 3136137" data-attributes="member: 6777"><p>In D&D, the book does. The DM then adjudicates the result. This is exactly why social skills in D&D have such potential for problematic play.</p><p></p><p>All the D&D die mechanic does is resolve <em>tasks</em>. It doesn't resolve <em>conflict</em> or <em>intent</em>. The latter are only resolved as the result of an aggregation of tasks and player-DM negotiation. </p><p></p><p>This is exactly why arguing over the PC trying to intimidate a king to give up his throne is fruitless; the Intimidate roll does not cover the player's <em>goal</em>, i.e., there is no stakes-setting in D&D. All the player can do is say, "I want him to give me his throne; I'm giong to try and Intimidate him and see if that helps." The resulting roll only determines if the target feels intimidated. It does <em>nothing</em> to insure a specific outcome. The specific outcome is almost entirely in the hands of the DM.</p><p></p><p>Not to mention, the DM is entitled to modify the heck out of that roll, e.g., "You're at -10 becasue you're trying to Intimidate him in his own throne room, in front of his elite guard."</p><p></p><p>This brings us back to the point that Dr. Awkward (and I) was making above: what the result of the roll means is highly subjective, and is ultimately out of the player's hands. Ergo, Intimidate (and any other social skill) is only "uber" if you know your DM is very generious with its results.</p><p></p><p>The solution to these issues is to write into the skill descriptions a means to achieve a specific goal. "If you beat DC X, the target performs an action specified by you for Y rounds," or "...will provide aid up to Y thousand gp in equivalent value," or "...will answer Y questions to the best of their ability." That, or some equivalent sort of mini-stakes-setting built into each skill mechanic.</p><p></p><p>The only social skill I've seen become "uber" is Diplomacy. A player who's minmaxed his PC's Diplomacy can get ridiculous results unless the DM throws out the NPC Attitudes table altogether. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p><em>Dynasties & Demagogues</em> supposedly has something equivalent to <em>Burning Wheel</em>'s Duel of Wits. I keep meaning to check it out, as D&D could really use a similar mechanic, IMO.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="buzz, post: 3136137, member: 6777"] In D&D, the book does. The DM then adjudicates the result. This is exactly why social skills in D&D have such potential for problematic play. All the D&D die mechanic does is resolve [I]tasks[/I]. It doesn't resolve [I]conflict[/I] or [I]intent[/I]. The latter are only resolved as the result of an aggregation of tasks and player-DM negotiation. This is exactly why arguing over the PC trying to intimidate a king to give up his throne is fruitless; the Intimidate roll does not cover the player's [i]goal[/i], i.e., there is no stakes-setting in D&D. All the player can do is say, "I want him to give me his throne; I'm giong to try and Intimidate him and see if that helps." The resulting roll only determines if the target feels intimidated. It does [i]nothing[/i] to insure a specific outcome. The specific outcome is almost entirely in the hands of the DM. Not to mention, the DM is entitled to modify the heck out of that roll, e.g., "You're at -10 becasue you're trying to Intimidate him in his own throne room, in front of his elite guard." This brings us back to the point that Dr. Awkward (and I) was making above: what the result of the roll means is highly subjective, and is ultimately out of the player's hands. Ergo, Intimidate (and any other social skill) is only "uber" if you know your DM is very generious with its results. The solution to these issues is to write into the skill descriptions a means to achieve a specific goal. "If you beat DC X, the target performs an action specified by you for Y rounds," or "...will provide aid up to Y thousand gp in equivalent value," or "...will answer Y questions to the best of their ability." That, or some equivalent sort of mini-stakes-setting built into each skill mechanic. The only social skill I've seen become "uber" is Diplomacy. A player who's minmaxed his PC's Diplomacy can get ridiculous results unless the DM throws out the NPC Attitudes table altogether. :) [i]Dynasties & Demagogues[/i] supposedly has something equivalent to [i]Burning Wheel[/i]'s Duel of Wits. I keep meaning to check it out, as D&D could really use a similar mechanic, IMO. [/QUOTE]
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A quick look at Intimidate: the D&D wunderskill
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