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A quick look at Intimidate: the D&D wunderskill
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<blockquote data-quote="Felix" data-source="post: 3136490" data-attributes="member: 3929"><p>I'm not blaming the players, I'm just putting the responsibility in the hands of the person best able to make the decision: the DM.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Of course the player can direct the NPCs reaction. If the PC successfully intimidates the NPC and he engages in a discussion of tribbles instead of borogoves, then the NPC will react to that, and act as if he were friendly; if he knew anything about tribbles, he'd likely tell the PC.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Except for the part about the DM having created and inserted the NPC into the story in the first place? Yeah, once his AC and HP are set, they're set; but it's not like the players know what they are. So how can the players know the difference between a DM who meticulously keeps track of NPC HPs and one who decides the NPC can take 4 hits of ~9 damage? They can't. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Isn't this "DM Fiat" business a different thread? <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>It's not fiat to say that the DM role-plays his NPCs, is it? That's fairly well in the job description of the DM. If the DM usually has his NPCs react to the PCs, then how is having a skill which influences the way the NPC is inclined toward the PCs any different? The DM is doing the same job, only with a nudge of, "Hey, the NPC should be more helpful now and less helpful in the future."</p><p></p><p></p><p>I prefer to have hidden information because the PC don't know the skills and abilities and effects acting on the NPC... so why should the players?</p><p></p><p>Is it not more interesting to discover that the strangely tough townspeople who have been attacking you have been posessed by a demon instead of having that information tipped at you the first time a posessed is encountered?</p><p></p><p></p><p>But if the DM says, "You can't do it" then as a player you know that there's some reason you can't. Why should you know that? Why should the player (or the PC) know the difference between someone who is immune to Intimidate (a paladin) and someone who has a strong force of will?</p><p></p><p></p><p>May I ask how you <em>know</em> it is a success when you don't know what the opposing roll was? This is not Diplomacy (a whole other can of worms) that has set DCs. It's an opposed check; you can't know what result of yours will ensure a success.</p><p></p><p>Or perhaps you're refering to the fact that you now have a patent of nobility when what you really wanted for Christmas was the crown? That's absurd; of course you succeeded: you've now got a bloody title, and all the accompanying dangers, including the emnity of your monarch.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Fair enough. If the DM is willing to give control of his NPCs' reactions to the players then no, you don't need to know squat about the NPCs or their motivations.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Felix, post: 3136490, member: 3929"] I'm not blaming the players, I'm just putting the responsibility in the hands of the person best able to make the decision: the DM. Of course the player can direct the NPCs reaction. If the PC successfully intimidates the NPC and he engages in a discussion of tribbles instead of borogoves, then the NPC will react to that, and act as if he were friendly; if he knew anything about tribbles, he'd likely tell the PC. Except for the part about the DM having created and inserted the NPC into the story in the first place? Yeah, once his AC and HP are set, they're set; but it's not like the players know what they are. So how can the players know the difference between a DM who meticulously keeps track of NPC HPs and one who decides the NPC can take 4 hits of ~9 damage? They can't. Isn't this "DM Fiat" business a different thread? ;) It's not fiat to say that the DM role-plays his NPCs, is it? That's fairly well in the job description of the DM. If the DM usually has his NPCs react to the PCs, then how is having a skill which influences the way the NPC is inclined toward the PCs any different? The DM is doing the same job, only with a nudge of, "Hey, the NPC should be more helpful now and less helpful in the future." I prefer to have hidden information because the PC don't know the skills and abilities and effects acting on the NPC... so why should the players? Is it not more interesting to discover that the strangely tough townspeople who have been attacking you have been posessed by a demon instead of having that information tipped at you the first time a posessed is encountered? But if the DM says, "You can't do it" then as a player you know that there's some reason you can't. Why should you know that? Why should the player (or the PC) know the difference between someone who is immune to Intimidate (a paladin) and someone who has a strong force of will? May I ask how you [i]know[/i] it is a success when you don't know what the opposing roll was? This is not Diplomacy (a whole other can of worms) that has set DCs. It's an opposed check; you can't know what result of yours will ensure a success. Or perhaps you're refering to the fact that you now have a patent of nobility when what you really wanted for Christmas was the crown? That's absurd; of course you succeeded: you've now got a bloody title, and all the accompanying dangers, including the emnity of your monarch. Fair enough. If the DM is willing to give control of his NPCs' reactions to the players then no, you don't need to know squat about the NPCs or their motivations. [/QUOTE]
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