A real two-bladed sword!

[Horishijin]

You NEVER, EVER, parry with the flat of the blade. That's is weakest point. Chances are that you'll snap the blade of you do. And I've personally seen it happen more times that I'd like to remember in Stage combat shows that i have been in.

You should never, ever say never, ever! The topic of whether to parry with the edge or or the flat is a much discussed one among western martial arts enthusiasts. Many practioners feel that the edge should never, ever be used for a parry. See John Clements' essays on the topic at: http://www.thearma.org/essays/parrying.htm
http://www.thearma.org/essays/edgemyth.htm

But, if your frame of reference is only staged combat, then it is somewhat skewed. Historic fencing, even medieval fencing, relies on timed deflections which move an attack off-line, while bringing your weapon into a threatening position; techniques much too subtle, and much too dangerous, for the stage. Ideally this involves striking your opponent's flat with your edge, or deflecting his edge with your flat. What you are avoiding is an edge on edge parry.

Where were you in staged combat shows?

 

[RFisher]

A twin-bladed sword would mainly be used like a European quarterstaff

Only if you want to cut your fingers. Not only can you not grasp it at the quarter point, as Krieg said, but it's not uncommon for the grip to move closer to the end than that.

 

[Jupp]

I've seen a variation of this thing in a martial arts demonstration. The difference was that the blades were shorter, about 40 cm, and the middle section was much longer, about 1 meter. So essentially it was a short spear with two ends, just that the blades were longer than a spear point. The martial artist used this thing like a bo, means he parried the blows not with the blade but with the left or right part of the middle section. At times he used only one side of the weapon like a short spear just to use both sides like with a bo in the next move. It was quite impressive. I just cannot remember the name of the weapon :/

But yeah, the weapon shown in this thread doesnt really look usefull for real combat. Well you could use it like a bo but it would be only good for offensive strikes. I just cant see how you would be able to defend yourself with it.

 

[Krieg]

You NEVER, EVER, parry with the flat of the blade. That's is weakest point. Chances are that you'll snap the blade of you do. And I've personally seen it happen more times that I'd like to remember in Stage combat shows that i have been in.

While the edge vs flat parry debate goes FAR beyond the scope of this thread (or this board for that matter), I do have a couple of points...

-The full on, blade against blade blows you see in modern stage "combat" have little to no relation to how the weapons were used in actual battle.

When defending against a cut the Fechtbuchs typically teach the following (in order of preference)...1. Move out of the way of the blow (Void the attack) 2. Deflect the blade by striking it from an angle different from the line of attack (beating or displacing the attack). This would typically be followed with a counter attack. 3. Close with the attacker so as to prevent him from finishing the attack (stifle or bind the attack).

In the case of number two, the displacement was typically edge on flat, although it was just as likely to be the defender's edge deflecting the attacker's flat as the other way around.

Static parries (direct blade on blade perpendicular contact) were always a measure of last resort. This is as much because it would cause the defender to step out of time as due to danger to the blade.

Beating a blade away is less traumatic to the blades of both weapons than a head-on static parry; regardless, actual fighting blades are far more flexible and less brittle than the thick, stiff stage blades used by re-enactors.

If you are looking for written historical evidence of edge vs flat parrying ...

Joachim Meyer's 1570 Fecthbuch:

However, if he strikes from above against your right, then take his blow on your flat and step out towards his right, or (when the swords have clashed together), remain with your blade on his, and wind the false edge in toward his head; turn the sword quickly out of the wind and come into the Longpoint, so that you send his following attack away from you with the true edge...

Codex Wallerstein, Plate 69:

one blows you in your head, so set aside with your flat and on your crosspiece, and push his messer on the side

The Original Art of the Fencers 1555

From the middle position of the plough (pflug) guard, displace quickly with the flat so that his sword slips down

OK I'll shut up now, just wanted to point out that modern stage re-enactment is a very VERY bad place to try and find clues regarding historical fencing.

/rant

edit: Well fudge, looks like Horishijin beat me to the punch while I was typing!

 

[Horishijin]

edit: Well fudge, looks like Horishijin beat me to the punch while I was typing!

Brevity has its merits...

Still, a well researched reply. Nice to see another WMA guy on here!

 

[BigFreekinGoblinoid]

http://www.karatedepot.com/sw-ni-33.html

NO way I'm using a sword that costs less than my last D&D book...

 

[Krieg]

NO way I'm using a sword that costs less than my last D&D book...

Now that is the best point in the thread...and should probably be a sig! lol

 

[rbingham2000]

NO way I'm using a sword that costs less than my last D&D book...

Yep. Into the sig file with you!

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Considering that the grip is in the middle of this very short blade, you'd think that the smart attacker would just aim for your hands, since there's no guard. Really, that bloody stupid looking Klingon weapon is better designed as a double blade than this thing.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

As is, the weapon is no worse than a short staff.

The klingon batlef (or however its spelled- I'm no fanboy) has a balance similar to that of an axe, and not a very good one at that (not quite enough mass at the points to penetrate). So if you try to use it like they did in the show, you'd be leaving yourself open a lot of the time because its too massive towards the points to be quickly moved into a defensive position. Thus, you'd either use it like an small axe (attack, attack, attack, always in constant motion- possibly with a shield), a large axe (as small axe, but with 2 hands), or like a staff (2 hands, fight defensively while getting in quick counterstrikes).

This thing is lighter than the batlef because its missing that arc of metal between the 2 points. Its probably MUCH quicker than the batlef because of that.

I'd still rather have a longer double spear, though.