A Series of Concerns

[Dragonblade]

As far as point 1 goes, I would try making some templates you can just apply to monsters. For example, make a templates where you distill down the levels to straight bonuses for different levels of classes. So have a warrior/fighter template for levels 1,5,10,15,20. Do the same thing for casters and clerics. Though for the casters I would precalc a suite of active spells and buffs.

You'll put a lot of work upfront, but then in the future when you need an orc shaman or whatever, just take the MM orc and slap on your 10th level cleric template with all the numbers already calculated for you.

Honestly, the awful prep time burden is one of the reasons I no longer play 3.5 and play 4e instead. But if you are happy with 3.5 then by all means keep using it.

As far as your other points go, I am personally opposed to individual XP awards. Some people are just introverted and shy by nature. Giving XP rewards for role-playing just punishes those players for being quiet and rewards the alpha players who dominate the game, and just encourages them to continue to dominate the game. Good RPing should be its own reward.

Likewise, eventually it can lead to level discrepancies between the alpha players and the quieter players, which only serves to further isolate, discourage, and alienate them from even trying. And it makes designing adventures that much more burdensome because now you have to compensate for level discrepancies in the party.

 

[the Jester]

The big one to me is question 4.

Social skills explicitly exclude pcs from their effects for a very good reason. They should be allowed to roleplay their characters. Intimidate checks are good for depicting how ferocious the one pc is, but not for depicting the other pc's response.

 

[Wolfwood2]

Aberzanzorax, I guess the difference is that I rewarded XP for a successful and meaningful bluff which was beneficial for the party. But they handled the torture scene badly, which resulted in one PC being crippled, which makes me think that they haven't earned a reward. I think I'm probably going to give them 100-200 XP for surviving, but even then I'm reluctant. What do you think is a reasonable amount of XP to reward level 5 characters who have survived the torture chamber? Or do you think I should give them nothing?

I don't really think of xp as a reward or incentive. Playing the game, roleplaying, winning fights, is its own reward. Players do it because they enjoy it. If they didn't, they'd do something else. Nobody roleplays out of a desire to see their imaginary character experience imaginary stat improvements.

I view experience points as simply being a means to track how fast you want the characters to increase in level. They should be given out fast enough so that characters change and get new options in a timely manner, but slow enough so that everybody can explore the potential of their PC at each level.

 

[papa_laz]

I guess I need to work out what I want XP to be in my game. I don't really want it to be a reward, as that seems like a meta game concept, but rather a consequence of adventuring. But determining what deserves XP and when to reward it is difficult. I'm definitely in favour of giving XP for non combat encounters but I'm not sure of the best way to do this.

For example if 5th level PC's are trying to break into a building that is guarded by an ogre, if they kill it they will earn 750 XP, but if they bluff it and convince it they have clearance to enter then I think they should earn the same XP, if not more. Surely using intelligence to avoid the risk of death or injury is a superior method to fighting. But then do I reward XP for avoiding combat by navigating through a maze under the building to find a secret entrance? Logic tells me that I should. I think this could start to get fiddly very easily.

I also don't want to have to reward XP for every single successful skill check, but I don't know what deserves XP and what doesn't. I quite like the way XP is handled in the CRPG games Fallout 1 and 2, where you can potentially earn more XP by avoiding combat and solving the problem the smart way. Though in these games XP is also given for every successful pickpocket and lockpick attempt, and again I don't know how to replicate this without having to reward every successful skill based check. I like the idea of giving large chunks of XP upon completion of a set task, but again I have no idea how effective this is.

It would be good to be given a few examples of how you guys use XP in your game and how you would handle the above situations.

 

[Voadam]

Some prep ideas

1) Tabletop Adventures makes some pdfs for various terrains with great descriptive read aloud text for things like forests, dungeons, caverns, swamps, mountains, cities, etc. I have found them useful and easy to use in fleshing out descriptions quickly.

2) I usually go with a quick outline of things I expect the party to do/encounter and flesh it out in my head instead of writing every detail down. This is quick and easy.

3) pre-done modules. I always modify modules for my game but once I find one with stuff I like I find them a great backbone to build a story around that saves me time by having predone plots, encounters, maps, and details.

4) statblocks for NPCs/Monsters:
a) Use monsters out of the book/d20srd.org.
b) Use NPCs off of sources like the NPC wiki.
c) Ignore skills, if it is important give them either HD+5 or 1/2 HD in the relevant skill. Quick and be done with it.
d) Not necessary for everyone to have a combat statblock, just the ones you expect to be fighting the party, blacksmiths are fine with a name and diviners are fine with a list of available divination spells/items.
e) exact precision is not necessary in a statblock, there is room for fewer or greater number of feats, and a few points here and there in the numbers does not throw the CR rating out of wack.

5) experiment with ad libbing and creating details on the fly, it can be a really fun part of DMing.

6) Provide some details and let the players speculate how they fit into the broader plot. If you like their theory then go with it.

 

[Voadam]

I guess I need to work out what I want XP to be in my game. I don't really want it to be a reward, as that seems like a meta game concept, but rather a consequence of adventuring. But determining what deserves XP and when to reward it is difficult. I'm definitely in favour of giving XP for non combat encounters but I'm not sure of the best way to do this.

For example if 5th level PC's are trying to break into a building that is guarded by an ogre, if they kill it they will earn 750 XP, but if they bluff it and convince it they have clearance to enter then I think they should earn the same XP, if not more. Surely using intelligence to avoid the risk of death or injury is a superior method to fighting. But then do I reward XP for avoiding combat by navigating through a maze under the building to find a secret entrance? Logic tells me that I should. I think this could start to get fiddly very easily.

I also don't want to have to reward XP for every single successful skill check, but I don't know what deserves XP and what doesn't. I quite like the way XP is handled in the CRPG games Fallout 1 and 2, where you can potentially earn more XP by avoiding combat and solving the problem the smart way. Though in these games XP is also given for every successful pickpocket and lockpick attempt, and again I don't know how to replicate this without having to reward every successful skill based check. I like the idea of giving large chunks of XP upon completion of a set task, but again I have no idea how effective this is.

It would be good to be given a few examples of how you guys use XP in your game and how you would handle the above situations.

Awarding xp is a pain, the more detailed you get the more of a chore for the DM it is.

There is a general formula for how many encounters on average is required for leveling up. Treating non combat encounters as encounters makes sense. Consider the torture session a serious encounter. Significant non-combat encounters as EL = Average party level is a decent starting point. If you feel they did abysmally then treat it the way you would if they handled a combat abysmally.

Think of xp as learning experiences and life development/growth.

I would avoid awarding xp for skill checks, grant it for encounter style situations (i.e. you don't give xp for hitting on individual attacks but for getting through a whole combat so the same applies to non-combat encounters).

I hate tracking xp. I use modules designed for specific levels and level up the entire party at appropriate points (usually at the end of a module and at dramatic break points midway in big modules). People play the game because the game is fun, I'd suggest not sweating xp in an effort to encourage different player rewards/behaviors.

 

[Ariosto]

In the ogre example, why are the PCs breaking into the building?

Old-style, there would (if players were going for XP) be treasure in the building -- get the treasure, get the XP. Maybe the "treasure" itself would be something or someone for which a patron would pay gold (that then becomes XP).

So, that's one way to do it: base XP on attaining objectives. They can be attained in easier or more difficult, combative or stealthy, magical or cunning, ways -- but it's the end rather than the means that chiefly determines XP.