D&D 5E A simple houserule for martial/caster balance.

[James Gasik]

I'm reminded of a grognard I know who scoffs at Wizards even being able to use crossbows. "In my day, when a wizard ran out of spells they threw darts...or oil!"

Yeah. Darts. That's a great way to feel like you're backing up the team. Granted, monsters had a lot less hit points back then, you probably could kill the average Orc with a dart.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Do either of you think cantrips deal to much damage?

I don't think they do too much damage (I would escalate them at a slightly different pace...), but what I don't like is the constant pew pew pew of attack cantrips. It makes the game less magical to me, personally.

Now, the player who is DMing our table presently has no issue with it and isn't using that part of our house-rules. I'm okay with that. As a player, I can choose to have my caster do other things instead of spamming cantrips.

 

[DND_Reborn]

DND_Reborn, thanks for chiming in with your experience. As I said, I had to go off what I've seen, and that was concentration buffs really compete with other spells casters want to use. That some groups use more buffs on other party members than the ones I've seen helps me to see it's not a universal problem.

You're quite welcome. I've found that often the issues I experience or see are not anywhere close to universal--and for some tables what I see as a bug, they see as a feature.

 

[Asisreo]

Simply cap spells known to 4th level or less (maybe 5th level or less). Casters can keep the slots.

Thoughts?

Possibly create magical items that allow casters access to higher level spells for atunement and sufficient class level.

If you're intent on reducing the spell levels capable of being cast, I'd say 6th-level is the way to go. Although, this type of solution has been practically done each edition, so it's not really new or unique and I'm skeptical that even having casters possibly using only 1st-level spells can solve the perceived problem or even truly affect it.

 

[Joshy]

What I don't like is the constant pew pew pew of attack cantrips. It makes the game less magical to me, personally.

Would you be okay with them if they were refluffed to be less magical or if they had a material cost like an arrow?

If you're intent on reducing the spell levels capable of being cast, I'd say 6th-level is the way to go. Although, this type of solution has been practically done each edition, so it's not really new or unique and I'm skeptical that even having casters possibly using only 1st-level spells can solve the perceived problem or even truly affect it.

You could try increasing the casting time of all 6th level spells or higher. I once tried making them take an additional 10min to cast and they could be held to delay the casting. but it took their concenetration and if they cast a different spell they lost concentration. That worked well for the most part.

 

[James Gasik]

Though do be warned- despite WotC's claims to the contrary, spellcasters are by design necessary for the game. And there are key spells the game must have (or have some replacement for) to overcome certain effects/obstacles.

If you eliminate these things, you're going to be doing a lot of work on the back end to port them back in.

 

[FrogReaver]

You could use thrown weapons, but I do understand where you are coming from.
My main problem was range attack options for the barbarians and paladins

There's issues with thrown weapons though. Drawing more than 1 a turn by RAW doesn't really work with multiattack.

They have tiny ranges. Seriously if you can throw a weapon at an enemy you are probably better off just dashing and getting in it's face so you either trigger an OA or can attack it next turn with no issue (or maybe both). If you are throwing a weapon at an enemy and have disadvantage it better be because it's a flying enemy and you have no other option.

I felt that it would be better to improve pure martials instead of weakening casters.

I hear this alot.

There's 2 counterpoints.
1. It's a heck of alot easier to remove content than to homebrew new balanced content.
2. Knowing how to balance by removing content means you have a good grasp on how much content needs added for balance.

So even if you want to balance by adding content, it's useful to know how to balance the classes by removing content.

 

[James Gasik]

What we need from WotC is a book called "how to mod your game and not destroy it in the process".

 

[FrogReaver]

If you're intent on reducing the spell levels capable of being cast, I'd say 6th-level is the way to go. Although, this type of solution has been practically done each edition, so it's not really new or unique

So i'm flexible on the exact balance point. I'd say 6th level spells are much too powerful. But I'm open to debate.

and I'm skeptical that even having casters possibly using only 1st-level spells can solve the perceived problem or even truly affect it.

This seems way over the top. Level 1 spells, really?

 

[Joshy]

There's issues with thrown weapons though. Drawing more than 1 a turn by RAW doesn't really work with multiattack.

I completely forgot about the weapon draw limit. All the groups I play in have a homebrew that fixes that. Well darn that's just another mark against strength based builds.

There's 2 counterpoints.
1. It's a heck of alot easier to remove content than to homebrew new balanced content.
2. Knowing how to balance by removing content means you have a good grasp on how much content needs added for balance.

So even if you want to balance by adding content, it's useful to know how to balance the classes by removing content.

Okay that makes sense, you can't balance unless you understand the mechanics.

So what do you think are the major mechanical issues with casters?