A Sundering point of View

[Kyramus]

Everyone knows that you can sunder an item and take an AoO. Everyone knows that if you take the sunder feat, you offset that AoO.

I've heard various comments about people liking it and not liking it.

I personally look at it and find it extremely gratifying to describe a battle scene with broken weapons.

Considering a magical weapon cannot be destroyed by a normal weapon, there should be a lot of broken master work weapons.

Consider that a magical weapon of a higher plus can destroy a magical weapon, that would be uncommon but it would still happen.

Consider that a DR of a creature that is higher than the weapon can damage the weapon, things like dragons make great weapon destroyers.

Consider the amount of wealth tossed around in 3rd ed, I wouldn't be surprised with the amount of "normal" magic items out there with just the plusses to hit and damage.

anyway just me rambling.
I like Sunder and will keep using it.

 

[BiggusGeekus@Work]

Yeah.

I have a character with an adamantine greatsword. I'm hoping to get it enchanted and start SunderFest 2003. I'll try to hold back on it and save it for special occasions because I don't want to abuse the system. But, man, is it going to be fun when I cut loose.

 

[Kyramus]

hehehe make sure you enchant it up to +5, cause otherwise anything of equal or higher can try to break that sword.


I love the DR rule, makes things like dragons able to sunder +2 weapons with ease if you are using the appropriate age and up.

Too bad stoneskin DR doesn't affect you attacking a DR creature, hehehehe otherwise a monk with stoneskin would be a nightmare. lol.

 

[mkletch]

I as a player hate sunder, and here is why:

Dwarf fighter/cleric in our group decides to sunder opponent's weapons, all the time. One time, it is even an obviously magical item. Item goes boom, the party just lost major treasure. Now, many times, the item is not obviously magical. How many more have been destroyed over time? By how many times sunder is used, countless items have been lost to us. But this other player like sunder. I may just sunder his dwarf if this continues...

As a DM, I love it when the players use sunder...

-Fletch!

 

[Kyramus]

as a player, you forget to take into account that magic items can be purchased.
Unless your DM is running a very low magic game, I don't see why they don't make their own magic items OR commission some mage to make the magic items.

This also limits the I'm only 16 and I'm level 20 situations.

 

[Caliban]

Sundering is ok, but my dwarven fighter generally only sunders Bows and Crossbows. (Stops that "5' step and shoot" shuffle)

He took a level of Wizard just so he can cast True Strike and disarm people. Then he stores their weapon in a Glove of Storing. =)

 

[kenjib]

I as a player hate sunder, and here is why:

Dwarf fighter/cleric in our group decides to sunder opponent's weapons, all the time. One time, it is even an obviously magical item. Item goes boom, the party just lost major treasure.

I can see what you are saying, but I think when I play, I am much more happy to survive a battle than I am about maximizing the loot potential of a given foe. If smacking down that powerful weapon makes victory that much easier, then it's a good thing. Life > treasure and you've just got to do what you've got to do to survive.

I would love to see gear be more expendable in general (which gives me more of the feel of old epics where weapons breaking is a common theme), but with the magic gear reliant nature of D&D, it's more difficult to do this I think -- since losing your irreplacable +3 vorpal avenger is much more imasculating than losing a finely crafted sword and then grabbing a good enough replacement from the death grip of a fallen foe to resume the fight.

 

[mkletch]

I can see what you are saying, but I think when I play, I am much more happy to survive a battle than I am about maximizing the loot potential of a given foe. If smacking down that powerful weapon makes victory that much easier, then it's a good thing. Life > treasure and you've just got to do what you've got to do to survive.

But sundering a weapon is never the best way to survive. There are myriad ways, and almost all begin with the phrase "we run". Get away, come up with a better plan, get more appropriate resources, hire mercenaries, buy a wand, something. At mid-levels and beyond (exactly when sunder is a viable feat/tactic), the vast bulk of treasure found will be in magic items. Those 2000cp are not going to help you buy anything!

I would love to see gear be more expendable in general (which gives me more of the feel of old epics where weapons breaking is a common theme), but with the magic gear reliant nature of D&D, it's more difficult to do this I think -- since losing your irreplacable +3 vorpal avenger is much more imasculating than losing a finely crafted sword and then grabbing a good enough replacement from the death grip of a fallen foe to resume the fight.

And I agree 110%. Belive it or not, that is the primary reason I am designing a whole new campaign setting for my groups. Low magic, and that which is present is expendable 98% of the time (wands, scrolls, potions, etc.).

So, normal weapons, very little armor better than chain mail, armor as DR, VP/WP instead of HP, d20 Modern's death by massive damage. Lethal, low tech/low magic, mysterious. Granted, a monster with DR 10/+2 is nearly invulnerable, but that is the point.

Why does it take someone like Glorfindel (the 1st), Ecthelion of the Fountain or Gandalf to kill a Balrog - because that DR 20/+3 is the bomb. Why does it take a wicked cool arrow to bring down Smaug? DR 20/+3 stops just about anything. Why is a Myrdraal nearly impossible for anyone but a heroic warrior to even fight? The list goes on; add your favorite fantasy writer/novel here...

Monsters from legend, fairy tales and lots of more modern books can only be damaged by special materials - make the characters research that (in game, not in RL). Put some wonder back into magic, demons, dragons - stop them from being simple prizes to be won, or simple (but still tough) creatures to be overcome in the course of any normal adventuring career.

Well, now, that was a tad of off-topic rant, wasn't it?

-Fletch!

 

[hong]

Consider that a DR of a creature that is higher than the weapon can damage the weapon, things like dragons make great weapon destroyers.

Technically, no.

 

[kenjib]

Monsters from legend, fairy tales and lots of more modern books can only be damaged by special materials - make the characters research that (in game, not in RL). Put some wonder back into magic, demons, dragons - stop them from being simple prizes to be won, or simple (but still tough) creatures to be overcome in the course of any normal adventuring career.

That sounds really great. If you get it up and running make sure and let us know how it works out!