D&D 5E A Treatise on Hiding

[WhosAChaoticGoodBoy]

Hi Folks,

I realized the PHB had the rules on perception and stealth disastrously scattered throughout the book, and I thought it'd be useful to collect and edit them as if they belonged to a single section regarding hiding. Feedback is appreciated!

Notes:

I. I used https://olddungeonmaster.wordpress.com/2014/12/28/dd-5e-stealth-and-hiding/ as a reference to make sure certain rules were expressed consistently.

II. The blurb about multiple forms of obstruction not stacking is technically a house rule, but inspired from how Cover works in that the most covering/obscuring source defines your cover/obstruction.

HIDING

You can attempt to hide by making a Dexterity (Stealth) check to become hidden. In combat, you do this by taking the Hide action. If you are hidden from a creature when you attack it, you have advantage on your first attack roll and give away your location when the attack hits or misses. Likewise, you have disadvantage attacking a target that is hidden from you. If a target isn't in the location you targeted, you automatically miss.

You must be heavily obscured to attempt to hide. For example, an invisible creature is heavily obscured, so it can always try to hide. However, signs of its passage might still be noticed if its perceptible through other senses.

The DC of your Dexterity (Stealth) check is the Passive Perception of those you’re hiding from. Creatures with advantage or disadvantage to perceive you gain +5 or -5 to their Passive Perception, respectively. If a creature searches for signs of your presence, your check is contested by that creature's Wisdom (Perception) check.

You are discovered if the result your Dexterity (Stealth) check is below a creature’s Passive Perception or Wisdom (Perception) check. You are also discovered if you’re no longer heavily obscured from a creature you’re hiding from, make noise, or choose to stop hiding (no action required).

In combat, most creatures stay alert for signs of danger all around, so if you come out of hiding and approach a creature, it usually sees you. However, under certain circumstances, the Dungeon Master might allow you to stay hidden as you approach a creature that is distracted, allowing you to gain advantage on an attack before you are seen.

You cannot hide from a creature that can see you, so success relies heavily on a character’s surrounding light levels and visual obstructions. You are UNCOVERED or UNOBSCURED in bright light where most creatures see normally. Even gloomy days provide bright light, as do torches, lanterns, fires, and other sources of illumination within a specific radius.

Dim light, also called shadows, creates a LIGHTLY OBSCURED area. In a lightly obscured area, such as dim light, patchy fog, or moderate foliage, creatures have disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight. An area of dim light is usually a boundary between a source of bright light, such as a torch, and surrounding darkness. The soft light of twilight and dawn also counts as dim light. A particularly brilliant full moon might bathe the land in dim light. Certain features (such as the Wood Elf’s Mask of the Wild trait or the Skulker feat) enable you to hide while only lightly obscured, otherwise, you can only hide while heavily obscured.

Darkness creates a HEAVILY OBSCURED area. Characters face darkness outdoors at night (even most moonlit nights), within the confines of an unlit dungeon or a subterranean vault, or in an area of magical darkness. Any natural phenemona that blocks vision entirely (such as opaque fog, or dense foliage) also heavily obscure you. A heavily obscured area doesn’t blind you, but you are effectively blinded when you try to see something obscured by it.

If you have multiple forms of obstruction, you’re concealed only by the most covering source. For example, you're lightly obscured if you’re hiding in dimly lit moderate foliage.

 

[ClearlyTough69]

I'm going to reply one paragraph at a time.

When you take the Hide action, you make a Dexterity (Stealth) check in an attempt to become hidden. lf you are hidden when you make an attack, you have advantage on attack rolls and give away your location when the attack hits or misses. Likewise, you have disadvantage attacking a target that is hidden from you. If a target isn't in the location you targeted, you automatically miss.

I think it's worth spelling out that 'hidden' describes a relationship between two creatures: one creature is hidden from another though it might not be hidden from a third. I suggest tweaking your second sentence as follows (I've underlined my added words; don't know how to do strike out for a couple of removed words):

lf you are hidden from a creature when you attack it, you have advantage on your first attack roll and give away your location when the attack hits or misses.

Also I don't like WotC's use of the term location: it's too ambiguous for my taste. I prefer exact position or space (on the grid).

Strictly speaking, you can't directly target a hidden creature because... it's hidden from you. However, you can target its space. If you target the wrong space, you automatically miss and you don't know whether or not the creature is in that space - you still make an attack at disadvantage though. If you target the right space, your attack is at disadvantage; if you hit the creature with a melee attack, I would rule that it's no longer hidden from you because you have the direct evidence of your senses telling you exactly where the creature is (you feel the blow strike true); if you successfully target it with any other form of attack or effect, the DM's decides what feedback - if any - you get from your success. If you target the right space, but you miss, you don't know whether or not the creature is in that space. Neither the PC nor its player should be able to tell the difference between targeting the wrong space and targeting the right space but missing.

Thanks for posting this. Responding to these kinds of posts helps solidify my own thinking.

More to come on your other paragraphs...

 

[Blue]

Also I don't like WotC's use of the term location: it's too ambiguous for my taste. I prefer exact position or space (on the grid).

That only works for those using the variant rules of a grid (PHB pg 192). I think keeping this to the base rules and having clarifications for variant rules makes more sense then assuming everyone uses a variant.

 

[Shiroiken]

I think it's worth spelling out that 'hidden' describes a relationship between two creatures: one creature is hidden from another though it might not be hidden from a third.

Agreed; hidden is a relationship between two creatures, not a universal condition. Your edit makes a lot of sense.

Also I don't like WotC's use of the term location: it's too ambiguous for my taste. I prefer exact position or space (on the grid).

This is why we have rulings, not rules. You and your table may want specific information granted, but others might not. As a DM, I might point out that an arrow flies into the melee from the nearby corner, and you catch a glimpse of someone ducking back behind it. You don't know where they are specifically, but you know they are there (and see them once you go around the corner). Since using a Grid is an optional rule, not everyone needs that level of detail either.

 

[ClearlyTough69]

That only works for those using the variant rules of a grid (PHB pg 192). I think keeping this to the base rules and having clarifications for variant rules makes more sense then assuming everyone uses a variant.

I don't agree: I use the term exact position advisedly because it has no reliance on a grid. When WotC say location, they mean the place where a creature is as distinct from where another creature is or might be. If I am hidden from you but you can deduce my location, you have a chance of hitting me when you attack. If you target the wrong location, you have no chance of hitting me. Whether or not one uses a grid, correctly targeting a creature's location has real mechanical significance.

I balk at the term location because it is open to interpretation. It can mean a general area (eg London) or an address (30 Sutton Avenue) or it can be a place in a building (the meeting room on the third floor) or a precise spot (60 metres north of the altar). Exact position has the virtue of reducing this ambiguity at least a bit.

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

Great work, thanks for taking the time to type it all out.

A couple of suggestions.

When you take the Hide action,

The Hide Action is what you take in Combat. Outside Combat, you just Hide. Perhaps rephrase it as "When you attempt to hide (which requires the Hide Action in combat)…".

To hide, you must be heavily obscured and unheard.

You don't have to be unheard - the act of Hiding includes attempting to muffle the noise you make.

For example, an invisible creature is heavily obscured, so it can always try to hide. Signs of its passage might still be noticed, however, and it still has to stay quiet.

I like that you've included this. I'd go further, and stress, "Just because you are invisible does not mean you are hidden! Invisible = unseen. Hidden = unseen and unheard and unsmelt and unfelt and …".

 

[CapnZapp]

Thanks.

However, is it just me that takes a step back and asks: why do we even use this clusterfrack of a rule?

It's not that there aren't thousands of other rpgs out there that have perfectly adequate stealth & hide rules...

 

[ClearlyTough69]

To hide, you must be heavily obscured and unheard. For example, an invisible creature is heavily obscured, so it can always try to hide. Signs of its passage might still be noticed, however, and it still has to stay quiet.

You can't try to hide from a creature that can see you. That's it. There's no requirement to be silent and unheard before you try to hide, because that's what hiding is for: making less noise and being inconspicuous.

To be unseen by another creature, you normally need to be heavily obscured from it, or behind full cover. I would not bother to define light and heavy obscurement, and the relationship between obscurement and levels of light, in these rules: that is already done adequately in the PHB.

 

[Hussar]

Thanks.

However, is it just me that takes a step back and asks: why do we even use this clusterfrack of a rule?

It's not that there aren't thousands of other rpgs out there that have perfectly adequate stealth & hide rules...

It's an attempt to make hiding and invisibility a bit less powerful. To me, that's the reason. If invisibility or hiding is an absolute like it was in earlier editions, it becomes WAY too powerful for a second level spell. This was less of an issue in earlier editions simply because it was harder to become invisible. You needed a wizard (or sorcerer) who was willing to burn a slot (a major issue in pre-3e D&D). Now, clerics, druids, bards, sorcerers, warlocks and wizards all gain access to invisibility, and most of those simply need to know the spell, they don't need to memorize it. There's a lot less opportunity cost involved.

A spell that renders you immune to all single target attacks is far, far too powerful for a second level spell. So, we get these rules for hiding.

 

[fjw70]

I have to ask why people still seem to be having troubles with these rules. I think they are excellent guidelines for running hiding during a game.