Aasimar Commoner Proficiencies Question

[kirinke]

Grrr. You're being stubborn. ( So am I. )
Look in the MM page 209.

Under the Aasimar Heading it says:
Aasimar 1st level warrior
Medium Outsider (Native)

Now. The native subtype is a special case. The Outsiders with this subtype are essentially native-born outsiders and have to gain their special abilities the way everyone else does. Through feats, skills and abilities gained from classes.

You really have to use common sense here. If you tried to put all of the stuff an Outsider has on an Aasimar, you'd have to make into an ECL +2 class. Now that's fine. If you want to play an ECL +2 race. Me personally, I prefer the Aasimar as written and that is going strictly by the write-up in the Monster Manual.

And while I'm no rules lawyer, that's how I read it and that's how the DM's whose games I play in read it. And you really aren't going to change my mind.

Now if you want to play it differently in your game, you can as long as the DM is agreeable. That's the wonderful thing about D&D 3.5. Customization.

Howsomever. I can't agree with your stance. Oh well. Some wars you can win, some you can't.

And from what I've read on the boards in some thread I forget where, the designers thought the Aasimars/Tieflings were about a .5 ECL, but they erred on the side of caution and put in to ECL +1.

Most DM's are going to probably put them at an ECL +2 if you add the full Outsider abilities to them.

 

[kirinke]

Hmmm. Here is an alternate Aasimar. It's not too powerful, so would still be in on the ECL +1.

Aasimars are usually tall, good-looking, and generally pleasant. Some have a minor physical trait suggesting their heritage, such as silver hair, golden eyes, or an unnaturally intense stare.

Most aasimars are decidedly good-aligned. They fight against evil causes and attempt to sway others to do the right thing. Occasionally they take on the vengeful, judgmental aspect of their celestial ancestor, but this is rare. Combat

Aasimars usually like a fair, straightforward contest. Against a particularly evil foe, however, they fight with utter conviction and to the death.

Daylight (Sp): An aasimar can use daylight once per day as a 1st-level caster or a caster of his class levels, whichever is higher.

Skills: An aasimar has a +2 racial bonus on Spot and Listen checks.

Aasimar as Characters
Aasimar characters possess the following racial traits.
— +2 Wisdom, +2 Charisma.
—Medium size.
—An aasimar’s base land speed is 30 feet.
—Darkvision: Aasimars can see in the dark up to 60 feet.
—Low Light Vision: Aasimars can see in low light up to 120ft
—Racial Skills: Aasimars have a +2 racial bonus on Spot and Listen checks.
—Racial Feats: An aasimar gains feats according to its class levels.
—Special Attacks (see above): Daylight.
—Special Qualities (see above): Resistance to acid 5, cold 5, and electricity 5.
—Proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any weaons mentioned in its entry
—Aasimars are native outsiders and eat, breathe and sleep
—Automatic Languages: Common, Celestial.
—Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Halfling,Sylvan.
—Favored Class: Paladin.
—Level adjustment +1.

Note: Since Aasimars are native outsiders, their hit dice, saves and BAB are determined by their class levels, not by their racial levels. They gain armour/shield proficiencies by class or by any feats they choose.

 

[Thanee]

From the Humanoid template from the SRD:

Traits: A humanoid possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).
—Proficient with all simple weapons, or by character class.
—Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, or by character class. If a humanoid does not have a class and wears armor, it is proficient with that type of armor and all lighter types. Humanoids not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Humanoids are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
—Humanoids breathe, eat, and sleep.

Note the bold text. This text is absent in the Outsider template text.

CLICK (from the other thread)

Bye
Thanee

 

[TheEvil]

CLICK (from the other thread)

Bye
Thanee

Planetouched races are outsiders. Outsiders gain the traits unless stated otherwise. Nothing in the aasimar or tiefling info states otherwise.

 

[TheEvil]

Grrr. You're being stubborn. ( So am I. )
Look in the MM page 209.

Under the Aasimar Heading it says:
Aasimar 1st level warrior
Medium Outsider (Native)

Now. The native subtype is a special case. The Outsiders with this subtype are essentially native-born outsiders and have to gain their special abilities the way everyone else does. Through feats, skills and abilities gained from classes.

Not stubborn, just put forth the best argument I have and waiting for a good rebuttle. Proficiency with all martial and simple weapons is not a feat. It is a trait of the type.

You really have to use common sense here. If you tried to put all of the stuff an Outsider has on an Aasimar, you'd have to make into an ECL +2 class. Now that's fine. If you want to play an ECL +2 race. Me personally, I prefer the Aasimar as written and that is going strictly by the write-up in the Monster Manual.

And while I'm no rules lawyer, that's how I read it and that's how the DM's whose games I play in read it. And you really aren't going to change my mind.

Now if you want to play it differently in your game, you can as long as the DM is agreeable. That's the wonderful thing about D&D 3.5. Customization.

Howsomever. I can't agree with your stance. Oh well. Some wars you can win, some you can't.

And from what I've read on the boards in some thread I forget where, the designers thought the Aasimars/Tieflings were about a .5 ECL, but they erred on the side of caution and put in to ECL +1.

Most DM's are going to probably put them at an ECL +2 if you add the full Outsider abilities to them.

Beware of invoking 'Common Sense' in your argument. All it really means is you don't have a rule to back you up!
Funny enought, every GM I have played a planetouched race with gave them the weapon proficiencies. I also wouldn't call myself a rules lawyer, yet I come to the opposite conclusion you do. Strange.

Definately not a big deal either way you play it, though I would ask, do you really think giving aasimar all simple and martial weapons proficiencies is really worth +1 ECL?

 

[Thanee]

Planetouched races are outsiders. Outsiders gain the traits unless stated otherwise. Nothing in the aasimar or tiefling info states otherwise.

It does... it says:

Aasimar characters possess the following racial traits.

Followed by a finite list of traits they possess.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Prism]

Now. The native subtype is a special case. The Outsiders with this subtype are essentially native-born outsiders and have to gain their special abilities the way everyone else does. Through feats, skills and abilities gained from classes.
.

I think your description applies to plane touched as opposed to all native outsiders. How would you rule rakasha and Janni which are both also native outsiders

 

[Scion]

It does

No, it doesnt.

It grants certain racial traits for being that race, yes.
But then you also gain the traits of your type, 'unless otherwise specified', which it does not.

Much like, say, an abberation would always have darkvision, unless its creature entry specified otherwise. Such as the elan.

Without the race entry denying abilities from type it gets them.

Otherwise, we do not know if the planetouched needs to eat or drink, it is unspecified.
Otherwise, it would be unimportant to even have native list that they can be raised since all you would have to do is not put the line in the racial description.

Plus, it would make typing much less useful. It is used as a way to cut down on a bit of text and as easy reference. In this case you are trying to take away some of the easy reference and add in a lot of, currently, unnecissary text.

Racial abilities + abilities gained from type are the baseline of the character. Sometimes type changes, usually when it does the ability that changed it specifies anything that you do not get with that change.

 

[kirinke]

Not stubborn, just put forth the best argument I have and waiting for a good rebuttle. Proficiency with all martial and simple weapons is not a feat. It is a trait of the type.

Beware of invoking 'Common Sense' in your argument. All it really means is you don't have a rule to back you up!
Funny enought, every GM I have played a planetouched race with gave them the weapon proficiencies. I also wouldn't call myself a rules lawyer, yet I come to the opposite conclusion you do. Strange.

Definately not a big deal either way you play it, though I would ask, do you really think giving aasimar all simple and martial weapons proficiencies is really worth +1 ECL?

Lol
True, very true. Well. Like I said before, I read in another thread that the designers thought that the Aasimars/tieflings were .5 or so ECL but they erred on the side of caution. Giving them a bit more in the way of power isn't going to hurt and will probably put it to a strong ECL +1 instead of a weak ECL +1.

And really, the rules don't cover everything, which is why DM's can make up house rules on the spot.

 

[TheEvil]

Lol
True, very true. Well. Like I said before, I read in another thread that the designers thought that the Aasimars/tieflings were .5 or so ECL but they erred on the side of caution. Giving them a bit more in the way of power isn't going to hurt and will probably put it to a strong ECL +1 instead of a weak ECL +1.

And really, the rules don't cover everything, which is why DM's can make up house rules on the spot.

Dat is da truth!