Ability Score Bonuses: +2 General vs. +2/+2 Specific

[Malacoda]

I haven't had a chance to play 4e yet, and actually haven't read nearly as much of it as I would like, but I have been giving some thoughts to some future house rules. These are house rules I would apply after playing some mostly-stock 4e. Still, it doesn't hurt to throw some out at those who have more experience with the game to see what they think.

To be honest, I don't like racial stat bonuses. I feel that they have a tendency to guide people towards certain given combos too strongly. Unless you need a more extreme bonus to truly reflect a major difference in a race (+6 to Strength for a Large creature, for example), I'd rather see players assign their stats as they please, and if their scores don't line up with the race, then they are an exception.

So, anyway, because I think removing racial ability score bonuses is not a good solution, balance-wise, I have considered giving all races +2 to a stat of their choice, rather than +2/+2 to two specific stats. This is what humans get.

My question is, is this balanced, overall? Or, can you separate out the bonuses humans get and the bonuses other races get from the "package" of that race? It is obviously going to be less generous to those who have a race/class combo that lines up well (e.g. dragonborn fighter), but help out those looking for combos that currently seem less optimal.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Humans are compensated with better defenses.
Races have their racial abilities and feat access as part of a whole package, stat bonuses being another part.

I'd say you're opening a can of worms .. every rule change has detrimental unintended consequences.
Just be prepared to take the bad with the good, and you're golden.

 

[DemonLord57]

Personally, I think this is a great idea. Most of the races are already geared towards what they are good for anyway, so opening up them to any class or role shouldn't be a balance issue for the most part. Even if it does open up a synergy, it's extremely unlikely that racial bonuses will synergize well enough to break something.

The main reason I like this is that then you can be what race you really like and what class you really like without being gimped if your particular race/class combo is completely unsynergistic. (example, tiefling fighter is extremely crappy, as both int and cha are useless to a fighter).

 

[hong]

It'll screw around with balance a little bit, but assuming you're a reasonably competent DM, I can't see it breaking the game at all.

 

[Kahoots]

If I was DMing and a player approached me with this idea for their character, I'd allow it. It in effect gives the character a net -1 to their total character modifier. The trade off for the player would be enabling them to use a non-standard synergized race/class combo for a slightly weaker (less points on a point buy) character overall.

 

[Tony Vargas]

To be honest, I don't like racial stat bonuses. ... My question is, is this balanced, overall? Or, can you separate out the bonuses humans get and the bonuses other races get from the "package" of that race?

If there's one key, critical thing in 4e, it's making your attack roll. You have one primary stat that determines that, and if it's good, you're OK, if it's great, you have a persistent advantage through all 30 levels, and if it's inadequate, you can never catch up. The point-buy rule makes a high stat prohibitively expensive, so the racial bonus is a necessity.

If you had no racial bonuses, you'd have to reduce the difficulties of challenges across the board. Only a little, but it would still have to come down.


The human racial bonus for everyone is just fine to retain balance (you could call it a 'heroic bonus,' instead, perhaps). The other racial bonuses are there to do exactly what you don't like: steer choices into particular race/class combos, instead of handing out explicit favored classes like in 3e, or race/class restrictions like in 1&2e. If you want any race to be able to excell at any class, then the +2 to one stat of choice bonus is the way to go. The Human's racial bonus is basically balanced with the other races, as are the human's other racial advantages.

Doing so would weaken the 'theme' of each race, though. The human is supposed to be the most flexible race, and all it's racials re-inforce that, including the stat bonus. If everyone gets that stat bonus, the relative flexibility of humans is reduced. Since that's exactly what you want to accomplish, though, it's not a problem.

 

[Malacoda]

If there's one key, critical thing in 4e, it's making your attack roll. You have one primary stat that determines that, and if it's good, you're OK, if it's great, you have a persistent advantage through all 30 levels, and if it's inadequate, you can never catch up. The point-buy rule makes a high stat prohibitively expensive, so the racial bonus is a necessity.

Yeah, that is why I don't want to remove bonuses completely, just give characters freedom to assign that bonus on the basis of what is good for their combo, not the specifics of the race.

I have read the threads on the math attacking and ability scores, and this kind of optimization is something I want to separate from flavor, to a degree. You can't separate it fully, nor would I want to; some classes still have other abilities that make them better at certain classes or roles, and I am OK with that, as long as the differences are not massive.

Doing so would weaken the 'theme' of each race, though. The human is supposed to be the most flexible race, and all it's racials re-inforce that, including the stat bonus. If everyone gets that stat bonus, the relative flexibility of humans is reduced. Since that's exactly what you want to accomplish, though, it's not a problem.

I'd rather not see players second-guessing great concepts because of basic math. That's really what I am shooting for.

That's not to say, though, that going for solid, optimized combos is badwrongfun, or you can't have interesing ideas out of those combos, but I'd like to make sure that the barrier is as low as possible to have both.

 

[77IM]

What if you gave each race an assignable +2 in addition to their two static scores, while decreasing the points available for point-buy? So humans get +2 to any two stats, Elves get +2 to Dex, Wis, and any one other, etc. (No stacking the racial bonuses!) Then, decrease the points available during character generation -- say, an 18-point buy.

In this fashion, every race can achieve an 18 or 20 in a stat for the same price as any other (buy it up to 16, then get a +2 racial bonus -- either a fixed bonus or an assignable bonus). The sliding-scale for point-buy still discourages high scores, but no race has too strong of an advantage in any one class, because everybody can achieve a high score in the crucial primary attack modifier for the same price.

The more I think about this, the more I like it. It is a little complicated, but preserves racial advantages without discouraging uncommon race/class combos.

-- 77IM

 

[Pyrrhus of Epirus]

Has anyone considered linking stat bonuses to class? Doesn't it make more sense to award +2 to a stat based on the build? ie a Brute Rogue gets +2 str and +2 Dex? or smth similar?

 

[renau1g]

What if you gave each race an assignable +2 in addition to their two static scores, while decreasing the points available for point-buy? So humans get +2 to any two stats, Elves get +2 to Dex, Wis, and any one other, etc. (No stacking the racial bonuses!) Then, decrease the points available during character generation -- say, an 18-point buy.

In this fashion, every race can achieve an 18 or 20 in a stat for the same price as any other (buy it up to 16, then get a +2 racial bonus -- either a fixed bonus or an assignable bonus). The sliding-scale for point-buy still discourages high scores, but no race has too strong of an advantage in any one class, because everybody can achieve a high score in the crucial primary attack modifier for the same price.

The more I think about this, the more I like it. It is a little complicated, but preserves racial advantages without discouraging uncommon race/class combos.

-- 77IM

I like this solution, well done 77IM