Now that I'm back I can give the proper attention to responding.
SKyOdin said:
Dausuul, I have to disagree with you on a few of your points. Particularly the bit about Natural Healing on a daily basis. You use it as an excuse for why Hit Points are a bad abstraction, but it is actually a pretty good example of where hit points work very well. The part you forgot to mention is that Natural Healing scales with character level. For example, if a 20th level character takes 20 points of damage, he can heal it all up in one night of rest. If a third level character takes 3 points of damage, he can heal it all back in one night of rest. Thus, the 3 hit points of damage that a third level character takes is an equivalent injury to what a twentieth level character takes when he is hit for 20 hit points of damage.
This is probably your best argument. The mechanics allow it to be interpreted to support either you or Darsuul without creating contradiction or internal conflict.
Hit Points are a pretty simple abstraction. Characters' Con score and the size of their hit dice represent their sheer physical toughness. Their level represents their ability to reduce the effect of oncoming attacks. If either a 1st or 20th level character lose 20% of their hit points, then they have taken equivalent amounts of damage. In other words, losing 10 hit points means completely different things for a 1st and a 20th level character.
This is a nice assertion but where does it come from, what in the system supports this claim? Whereas the contrary position that HP are not relative is highly supported via two mechanics, environmental damage and weapon damage. Weapons do a set amount of damage before external modifiers and feats are factored in. A longsword wielded by a character with 10 strength and no feats to modify this will always do 1d8 damage, regardless of the level of character holding the sword or the level of the character being struck. In order to get more damage the strength of the character wielding it must increase or skill must increase via a feat. The sword in and of itself is entirely static. Strong indication that hp are a static measure as well. Now environmental damage. Lava,
DMG p304 said:
contact does 2d6 points of damage per round of exposure
Note the bold parts there can be no argument here. It specifically details that damage is dealt on contact as a result of exposure and ends with exposure. Lava doesn't swing at you or leap or move around it just sits there and burns, it also can't be waved away via the near miss rule. Either you were in contact in which case you suffer damage, or you weren't and thus don't. Lava doesn't get hotter or cooler based on what level character touches it, always 2d6 damage for contact. An objective static amount of damage that affects all characters the same regardless of level
Now then, their are a few anomalies in this system. However, I don't agree with your first point. It is pretty easy to assume that whenever a character loses hit points, at least some physical contact was made, generally enough to carry the "rider".
But this is directly in contravention of your second point that damage should be measured by percentage of total hitpoints. In fact lets go directly to the example. Medium Monstrous Spider 1d6 plus poison, one first level character with 10hp and one 20th level with 200hp(d10 max hp no mods) Assuming the spider does min 1 damage to each that's 10% of one but only .5% of the other. The minimum possible attack that can still inflict poison, so it has to have connected at least some. But if damage is proportional that's a problem because the injury to the 1st level is already small, and the injury done to the 20th level is only 1/20th of that bad. Going by percentage that's the equivalent of a near miss still poisoning you.
Second, it is possible to imagine that a paralyzed or unconscious character is not completely helpless. When someone is paralyzed, all it means is that they lack sufficient motor function to walk around or fight, not that they are completely incapable of the small movements necessary to avoid damage.
SRD said:
Hold Person The subject becomes paralyzed and freezes in place. It is aware and breathes normally but cannot take any actions, even speech
This is what kills abstract hp entirely. A held person may not take ANY ACTION AT ALL, they may not make any motion whatsoever. Your assertion is that avoid damage through lessening the impact of a blow, but here that is totally impossible. Yet attacks against them deal exactly the same damage as against those who you assert are capable of doing so. A direct and unambiguous contradiction.
Finally, there is no reason for Wisdom or Dexterity to affect hit points since the scaling of hit points has more to do with experience. At level one, most of a character's hit points represent sheer physical toughness.
Again where is the reflection of this in the system, as flavor there's nothing wrong with it. But it's also entirely unsupported by the mechanics of the game.
Now then, this leaves two remaining anomalies: Healing and Environmental damage. However, you yourself have admitted earlier in the thread that you can imagine a higher-level character capable of fighting his way out of the acid where a lesser character would just collapse and die.
See first and second parts especially the part about lava. But just to put this in perspective via an extreme example full immersion in Lava 20d6 damage (avg about 75pts). There's not question here the damage requires full submersion whether you're 1st or twentieth level. Difference 1st level char dies immediately, as should be expected of a mundane character. 20th level char survives at least one round, potentially several based on the roll and their hp, while fully submerged in burning lava. This can't be abstracted.
I have to admit that magical healing is only large anomaly in the 3E hit point system. However, there are signs that healing might change for 4E. In SWSE, the second wind ability heals one quarter of the character's hit points. A direct proportion of the total. There was also talk that a heal check "allowed a character to call upon their own healing reserve." This could mean that healing works differently in 4E than in 3E.
The only other problem with the hit point system that you did not mention is that weapons do the same amount of damage no matter who wields them. However, we can also be pretty confident that this is changing in 4E too.
That much at least is a valid contention, all the way up to 3e there has been a gap, a mis-match between the mechanic and the text fluff describing it. If 4e changes things rather extensively it could make hitpoints truly abstract. But until the books that won't be known.
Overall, I think hit points are an excellent abstraction of damage, and it looks like 4E might be cleaning up some of the anomalies in the system.[/QUOTE]
But yes, I believe that characters that inhabit a fantasy world do things that are "supernatural" from a real-world perspective without the trappings of in-world "magic." 
