D&D 4E Abstracting Wealth in 4e: good idea or bad idea?

[Vael]

I've been looking at other game systems and a lot of them use abstract systems to record a characters wealth, not an official number of gp. And this seems to be quite advantageous in some respects. You're not counting coppers and silvers, it puts more control in the hands of the GM and helps you to play characters with more variety in social/economic status. On the other hand, it's just easier and more concrete to say that killing a monster nets you so many gp. So, I'm curious, is abstract wealth a way to go with DnD?

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

It can be good, if that's a style your group prefers, but if, and only if, you ditch the magic item economy treadmill (or alter it to suit).

 

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

I started back in 2E and have always loved gaining a dragon's horde of gp. Personally I always liked the rolling of the dice to see how much gold you got. I use the tables in the back of the 4E Compendium to determine wealth as opposed to parcels, it's more "old skool" to me and gives a sense of excitement (also allows me to bust out the 100-sider) because it isn't arbitrary, it's the luck of the roll!

 

[Vael]

It can be good, if that's a style your group prefers, but if, and only if, you ditch the magic item economy treadmill (or alter it to suit).

True. It's not just wealth, it'll have some larger consequences. Running a game with abstract wealth will probably need to go with inherent bonuses and you'd still need a way to deal with other magic items.

 

[MacavityCat]

After playing ed 4 through to level 30 I have binned the abstract money system as it destroys the role gaming element. As my group came to comment 'oh another 30 astral dimonds, shall I buy a plus 4 weapon, several villages, nah I'll create a fancy chandellier'.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I have no real idea of what abstract wealth means. Can you provide an example?

 

[Vael]

I have no real idea of what abstract wealth means. Can you provide an example?

An abstract wealth system means you don't track your wealth in an actual number of gold. Instead, characters would have some sort of wealth score to indicate their general wealth. Purchasing items might decrease your wealth score, and of course, treasure and gifts would increase it.

So, for example, here's a table of wealth scores:
1. Quite Poor
2. Lower class
3. Middle class
4. Upper-middle class
5. Royally Rich

So, for example, your PC is middle class. Items that are under your wealth class can be purchased without constraint. So, that 10 foot pole, or a night's stay at an inn, a night of drinking at a tavern, for example, you can simply purchase.

But say you want something at or above your wealth score. Your PC wants to buy a yacht, bribe a mayor, or get an expensive magic item. You roll a wealth check and then the DM says whether or not you can purchase the item and whether it affects your wealth score or not. Maybe your wealth score is "damaged" and you slip to Lower class as a result of your purchase.

 

[OnlineDM]

I went with "not sure" because while I haven't actually tried this yet, I'm intrigued. I ditched tracking XP long ago (instead just leveling up the party as appropriate) so I could see ditching gold as well. There's still the whole idea of keeping track of magic items, but you could go with inherent bonuses and just have treasure be rarer and more meaningful.

Yes, I'm definitely intrigued.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

With magic items disentangled (and made more odd-ball and powerful but also more rare ... but I digress), an abstract wealth system similar to the Burning Wheel resource system would actually work fairly well.

BW resources are abstract, but there are a few fiddly bits to help manage found treasure and so forth. Basically, finding a haul is a mod to a resource check, but once used it goes away. (If the haul is big enough, you can divide it over several lesser checks.) So killing the adult dragon and taking all of his stuff means that the party gets to do one big "we are flush with gold" resource thing, but then they go back to normal.

Thus, the dynamic becomes that if the party needs a ship, they get the ship the way adventurers would get it: They steal it. Or they hoodwink someone. Or they get a big favor from someone that has the money. Or if they want to buy it outright, then the easiest, fastest way for them to get the money is not to change their wealth status, but to get a big haul on an adventure.

As far as I'm concerned, that is the main reason to have an abstract wealth system (or not, as your preferences dictate). If getting a ship is about those kind of activities above, then an abstract wealth system will work with you to encourage getting the ship that way. OTOH, if you want getting a ship to be about painstakingly fighting your way out of (relative) poverty bit by bit, then you want all the details and scrapping ever copper out of old short swords. Both can be fun, as long as everyone is on the same page.

 

[Grydan]

Like others have said, it could work, if you're willing to put in the effort to disentangle the magic item economy from the rest of the economy.

It will depend on the group, though. Some players will find it frustrating. I want to know how much gold I'll get for performing this task, or how much treasure is in the dragon's hoard.

I plan on going in the opposite direction in the next campaign I run. I want to seperate the magic item economy completely (no buying, selling, or even crafting of magic items), use the inherent bonus system to make sure everyone's numbers are covered, and then make money matter more.

As the system currently exists, copper pieces are essentially meaningless. They matter for about 5 minutes during level 1, after which you might as well skip writing them down. Silver pieces have relevance for a couple of levels longer, but soon anything but vast quantities of them are simply an inconvenience rather than treasure. Often a quest takes long enough that by the time you finish it, the originally promised reward is pocket change, and almost not worth your time going back for.

I want to have a campaign where, as in some of my favourite fantasy novels, money occasionally matters. Do you take the higher paying job, and the risk that goes along with it, or settle for the safer but less rewarding one? Do you have enough spare gold to stay at the best inn, do you settle for the dive on the waterfront, or do you sleep in a stable? Can you afford next term's tuition at the academy, or are you going to have to get a loan from a loan-shark?

Maybe, once I run it, I'll find it frustrates me, or the players, or both. Still, I want to give it a shot.