AC 56 at level 6! You too can do it!

[pallandrome]

Pun-Pun is not meant to be played. It is an entirely theoretical exercise and, you're right, no DM should allow it. However, this is not a powergaming exercise. If you wanted to optimize AC what would you play?

Pun-Pun is just as legal a build as some of the optimized builds I've seen here. And I'd allow these builds just as much as I'd allow pun-pun. Just because something is legal according to the rules, does NOT mean a GM should allow it in their campaign.

 

[Grog]

AC 56 combined with a -1 meeelion to hit doesn't concern me.

True. The enemies will just ignore that character and kill the rest of the party.

 

[The Blue Elf]

Pun-Pun is just as legal a build as some of the optimized builds I've seen here. And I'd allow these builds just as much as I'd allow pun-pun. Just because something is legal according to the rules, does NOT mean a GM should allow it in their campaign.

Lets just say someone attemped too use If a Wizard Cat's Grace + Mage Armor+Sheild+ Protection With just Magical itmes and casting which would stack?

Many ways too stacking spells, but the problem Is which spells would stack.On page 171 of the Players Handbook paragraph Titile Special Spells and Effects under Bonus types says somewhere Two Bonus types of the same type don't generlly stack, for example if you cast the spell Bless and try too cast it twice on the same target It won't work if you try too use Mage Armor casting it Twice It won't stack.If you cast Magic Weapon on a Masterworks Longsword It may or may not stack.

 

[Vuron]

Pun-Pun is just as legal a build as some of the optimized builds I've seen here. And I'd allow these builds just as much as I'd allow pun-pun. Just because something is legal according to the rules, does NOT mean a GM should allow it in their campaign.

Meh, Pun Pun relies on the ability to transform into a specific monster from one setting that was a) poorly thought out b) arguably not playtested and c) assumes a very liberal rules interpretation about iterative transformations that might no longer be valid with the substantial changes to polymorph style effects.

In contrast most of the builds merely require an exhaustive library of 3.5 material and the ability to look for areas of synergy.

 

[Hypersmurf]

When you cast a targeted (greater) dispel magic against a creature, you target a creature, not a spell.

Now that statement, I have no problem with

-Hyp.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

While a noble and respectable notion, the rhetoric with which you present such a premise is rather disparaging. However, I will attempt a fairly "easy" method of obtaining a similar armor class to stave off the naysayers. Keep in mind, this is all off the top of my head so it will, perhaps, contain mistakes.

Human Agnostic Cleric 6
Domains: Spell, Plant
Feats: Combat Expertise (1), Divine Spell Power (Human), Dodge (3), Divine Shield (6)
Relevant Ability Scores: Dex 13, Wis 13, Cha 22 (18 base, +3 venerable, +1 level)
*Snip Rest*

If you were +3 venerable to your CHA, then your DEX would be -6, which means at most you would have a 12 DEX with a human.

DS

 

[BASHMAN]

I think I will start a new thread as an homage/parody of this one, entitled, "How to get a +60 bonus to unarmed damage at level 6". In the thread, I will say, "So you get +4 for Strength, +2 for weapon specialization (unarmed strike), +48 from miscalaneous bonuses that don't bear repeating here that any idiot should know, and +6 from power attack. "

Then, when the troll-thread begins attracting bait, I start teasing the prey, jibing "what, you haven't GUESSED how I've done it yet? You all must be retarded. What did you think this was, some thread where I actually EXPLAINED how to gain this unbelievable bonus? Why would I just GIVE that info away? I might actually have to open a book to do that-- I could get a paper cut! You'll just have to guess, but I will give hints by answering yes or no questions. Fair enough, or are you too stupid to figure it out?"

 

[Cabral]

I like my old warforged monk in a now defunct game. At level 6 he would normally be sporting a sub 10 AC in combat but if there was trouble he would shoot up to nearly 30. The first time I made the shift the dm nearly choked, he had expected me to die to the horde on me that turn.

Just out of curiosity, how did you manage that and how quick was the shift?

 

[Iku Rex]

AC 56 combined with a -1 meeelion to hit doesn't concern me.

What's the highest sum of AC and to hit a level 6 Character can have, both values must be positive?

In my number-crunching experience, the main factors are AC, AB and damage. As a rule of thumb, 1 AC = 1 AB = 2 damage for a "tank". Min-max to optimize the total value of those three factors you'll get a solid, effective character.

Hit points also enter into it of course, but I'm not sure exactly how. It may be highly level-dependant, like "1 AC = [level] hit points".

 

[Iku Rex]

Which brings me to my final point on these super duper High AC or High damage builds. Most players also feel they are fully vested participants in a shared world. Most players want to play their characters, not just collect leet powers.

Some players like to role-play. Some even like to role-play characters who are genuinely concerned about avoiding pain and bodily harm. Now I realize that this concept will seem alien to miniature/wargaming type gamers and there's nothing wrong with that. In some games having a balanced and proper "playing piece" is more important than role-playing a realistic character. But in other campaigns the player characters, who have often seen enough horrors and evil to give a person nightmares for the rest of his life, will be obsessing about defeating their enemies quickly and protecting themselves from harm. Both for their own sake and for the sake of the people who depend on them.

On paper it seems fine to grab any magic items you want, and make a Outsider Sun Elf Wizard/Monk that transforms into a statue of the Dwarven Lincoln anytime he wants........but how would you actually play that? You are not talking defaming a culture here, you are not talking flag burning here, you are talking about transforming into another culture's symbol just for the cool Natural Armor bonus....that is some pretty heavy stuff, if you put thought into it.

A legendary champion of good - an elf none the less! - enters every battle acknowledging the power and greatness of the dwarven people and its heroes. How flattering!

Even if the DM announces that dwarves are offended by it, how is a character going to respond to that? It's an extremely powerful tool after all.

How many people will your Good character allow the bad guys to torture and kill before he risks offending the irrational religious sensibilities of some dwarves? Will your character enter into the final battle to prevent Hell from invading the campaign world without bringing every weapon at his disposal?

Is a selfish, Neutral mercenary character going to value polite behavior towards nearby dwarves over his own survival?

Evil character? "I'm sorry, I don't get this 'offended dwarves' thing. Maybe you can explain it again once the twelve year old sacrificial virgin stops screaming."

Of course, if you're just pushing a playing piece around the table as part of a wargame, balance is paramount...

(Ok, I don't think the dwarven ancestor should be a legal form for alter self, and I'd probably never play a character using it myself even if the DM allowed it. It's too unbalanced. Takes the fun out of overcoming "challenges". I like to have some wargaming aspects to DnD.)