Accumulating and 'Spending' Experience Points

[ViciousPenguin]

I'm toying with the idea of changing, slightly, the way experience works in my next campaign. My idea is to have PC's gain and 'bank' experience points to 'spend' at some other time - probably while training for their next level. I've summarized my current thoughts below. Maybe some of you would be so kind as to tell me what you think of them.

GAINING AND SPENDING EXPERIENCE POINTS

As characters interact with the world they gain experience points. Most NPCs earn around 100 XP per year after reaching adulthood, with exceptional individuals earning more. PC's are very exceptional and earn experience at a greatly enhanced rate.

As experience is earned it can be 'spent' and applied to various things. Commonly, XP are spent in order to gain new levels in a class, but other uses for them are available.


TRAINING FOR CLASS LEVELS
There are two ways to train for new class levels: self training and professional training. Depending on what class you are trying to advance in, and whether or not you are training yourself, you may have to pay a penalty when 'spending' XP for this. You may spend up to 20 XP per hour (up to 200 XP per day) when training for a new class. You must, of course, note what class you are training toward when 'spending' XP this way.

Penalty / Training type and class
0% / Self training, NPC class (commoner, warrior, etc.)
20% / Self training, PC class
0% / Professional training, PC class
30% / Self training (pioneering), prestige class
0% / Professional training, prestige class
20% / Unbalanced multi-class (cumulative with other penalties)


TRAINING FOR FEATS
Feats do not leap unbidden into the mind. Like class levels, training must occur. The type of training and its length will vary depending on the feat in question. Typically, training might consist of any of the following:

* 2 weeks of professional training
* 4 weeks of self training
* 3 noteworthy attempts at the feat on separate occasions in game


TRAINING FOR SKILL POINTS
Skills must be practiced in order to be advanced in. Generally speaking, in order to advance a skill it must have been used at least once in game durring your previous level. Otherwise, if it is applicable, three days of training will be sufficient to advance a skill by one rank


TRAINING FOR EXTRA FEATS
It is possible to learn more feats than normal by spending additional XP. This may be usefull if you need to gain a particular feat before training for levels in a prestige class. However, the cost of learning extra feats is very high:

700 XP x character level

Furthermore, you cannot have more than double the number of feats that you would normally have at your current character level (bonus feats for class or race excluded). Thus a 6th level human fighter would normally have 8 feats, but could purchase 3 extra (at a cost of 4200 XP each) for a total of 11. Any extra feats bought in this fashion should be carefully noted.


TRAINING FOR EXTRA SKILL POINTS
In a manner similar to training for extra feats, one can train for extra skill points. This option is presented for similar reasons and the cost is likewise prohibitive:

300 XP x character level

One may not have more extra skill points of this sort than they have character levels and any extra skill points bought in this fashion should be carefully noted.

Your thoughts please

 

[wannabesuperman]

I think the idea of using up Xp and "buying" a level piecemeal is a great idea. Unfortunately, it seems more complex (read: confusing) for the players and it's very difficult to keep accurate records of the party's power level for the GM.

Other than that, I use a trimmed down version of this in the games I run...

 

[Taryn]

It took me 10 seconds after reading this to know that one of my players would give me hell if I actually implemented this system: he bitches at me for reworking magic, and that's less of a change than this.

However, I definately like the system, and, should my group agree (yes, my group demands that D&D is a democracy) I will probably be implementing this.

 

[DeBhaal]

My only complaint is, that it is easier for a lower level character to "learn" a new feat or skill, than a higher level character.

 

[the Jester]

This runs into the same problem that all other systems that allow you to earn 'extra' feats and the like does: how do you rate a character with extra feats as far as a challenge goes?

Is a 1st-level human fighter with ten feats instead of three still a CR 1 challenge? (Even if you discard the CR system entirely, which I think ain't a bad idea at all, you still need to weigh how much of a challenge this will be for the pcs, and how much reward they should get for overcoming said challenge.)

I've given a lot of thought to a 'spend-the-xp' system myself, but my most promising line of reasoning leads to eliminating classes entirely- and then it's no longer dnd (imho). Which is the game I prefer.

Anyhow, I don't want to sound discouraging- I rather like the idea in the abstract- but execution rapidly becomes tricky.

 

[Taryn]

Actually, if you consider things, it's not all that easier for a low level character to learn a 'new' feat:

Level       Cost for new feat         XP to level up
1            700   (70% of cost)      1000
2            1400  (70% of cost)     2000
3            2100  (70% of cost)     3000
...
20          14000  (70% of cost)    20000

So, essentially, the players are spending a number of XP equal to 70% of the experience required to attain their next level, no matter what level they're at.

 

[Bihor]

I think you should look at the Buy the Numbers buy S.T. Cooley Publishing.

I think your idea is good but it mean that the player need to be more involve in the game, and what I experience is that player don't do much for the game when ther'r not at the gaming table.

 

[Vrecknidj]

Yesterday (really, yesterday), I was thinking to myself, "wouldn't it be cool if players could set aside some of their xp so that this xp was immune to being drained."

I was coming at this same issue from another angle. What would happen if, in your example of the 6th level fighter who took 3 extra feats, he suffered a negative level? And then, worse, what would happen if he failed his save later and actually lost that level? What would happen to the extra feat? Would he keep it?

What happens in your system when someone is raised, and their new xp total drops to halfway between the last two levels?

I like what you're proposing, and I'm considering allowing my players some similar flexibility, but I'm not yet sure how to handle the oddball cases.

Also, since so many characters can spend xp on magic (either through casting spells, making items, or using permanency or similar stuff), I say "why not?" to the issue of spending (or banking) xp for other things.

Dave

 

[Plane Sailing]

No direct comment on these particular rules, but when we were waiting for 3e to arrive I was really expecting PCs to spend their xps to gain a level (in the same way that they spend xps to create magic items). This would then tie in nicely with any training process that DMs decided to include, but wouldn't enforce it for those that didn't want to do it.

It would have been a nice, clean concept IMO, and I'd still consider using it.

 

[the Jester]

Actually, if you consider things, it's not all that easier for a low level character to learn a 'new' feat:

Level       Cost for new feat         XP to level up
1            700   (70% of cost)      1000
2            1400  (70% of cost)     2000
3            2100  (70% of cost)     3000
...
20          14000  (70% of cost)    20000

So, essentially, the players are spending a number of XP equal to 70% of the experience required to attain their next level, no matter what level they're at.

This just exacerbates the problem. The more xp you spend on extras, the further behind you fall level wise. So a pc who earned (let's say) 4000 xp could either be a 'normal' third level xp, or a 1st-level fighter with five extra feats. (Or, for that matter, a 2nd level fighter with only one extra bonus feat... or two, if he took them both at 1st level. This demonstrates that the system falls apart with a little creative accounting: depending on when he spent those xp, the same exact character with the same exact xp total might have an extra feat over himself!)

Is a 1st-level fighter with five extra feats a CR 3 encounter? I don't think so- he's gonna die in combat with a typical CR 3 monster in a round or two. Is he a CR 1 monster? I'm not sure- but I do think that two pcs who've earned the same number of xp and have the same class ought to be roughly equal.

Just my opinion, again, I like the basic idea here but there are critical issues that need addressing.