Acrobatic Stunt to "somersault over an opponent?"

[Smeelbo]

PHB180 states that you can "make an Acrobatics check to...somersault over an opponent...," but gives no real guidelines other than "if the stunt fails, you fall prone," and that the DM may "say a stunt won't work," or "set a high DC."

Obviously, it would provoke an opportunity attack, successful or not.

But what is an appropriate DC?

My first instinct is to look at an equivalent High Jump, and set the DC comparable to that. So assuming a jump over a medium creature needs to clear 5', or one square. From standing, a 5' high jump would be DC50, or DC25 with a running start. These seem like reasonable DCs. If the height necessary were 7' instead, it would be DC70, or DC35, which seems not worth considering.

However, this is essentially letting a character Jump with an Acrobatics check, while jumping normally requires an Athletics check. I personally don't have have a problem with having some overlap between Acrobatics and Athletics.

Or you might look at a Long Jump of 4 squares or 20', which would clear one square, or 5'. The DC for that would be DC40 from standing, or DC20 with a running start. That also appears somewhere near the ballpark. A 6 square long jump would clear 7.5' with a DC60 from standing, or DC30 with a running start.

Do you think I am on the right track?

Smeelbo

 

[Dalzig]

Most people would go to DMG 42. The 'appropriate' DC would most likely be the level of the monster. Easy/Medium/Hard would be up to the DM's taste.

 

[Smeelbo]

So against a 1st-3rd level creature, assuming it is a Hard task (has to be), that would be DC25, comparable to what I derived based on Jump. So you'd only try at great need.

Interesting how the Jump DCs don't appear to directly depend on level, only distance.

Smeelbo

 

[GoLu]

If you use the post-errata chart, it's a lot easier. DC 15.

I wouldn't compare it to the jump rules, though. While it is a jump, the player's goal is probably just to move or shift through an opponent's square and there isn't much reason to raise the DC beyond what you would charge for the player to tumble through on the ground. Besides, you don't need to lift yourself 5' into the air for this stunt. Think of jumping over a fence. You don't do it by high jumping over the fence, but by planting your hands on the fence and swinging your legs out of the way.

 

[Smeelbo]

Yeah, I looked at the Errata'd chart this morning. At DC15 for a hard level 1 test, that seems a bit too easy, especially since the base DC for a stunt is DC15, and "somersaulting over an opponent" seems harder than a "base" stunt.

Second, thinking upon it, you'd probably grant Combat Advantage while tumbling, since you grant CA when balancing, climbing, running, or squeezing.

Oddly enough, as written, if you were to Long Jump past someone, you would not grant CA while jumping.

Maybe DC15, hard task as written, and provoke opportunity attack with CA is fair. Dangerous, but very useful.

Smeelbo

 

[CapnZapp]

The DC should definitely depend on the monster.

If you want to keep things simple, set a DC = 15 plus monster's half level.

You could possibly then add a modifier from size, so big hulking monsters of a certain level become more difficult to jump past than others of the same level.

I wouldn't complicate things more than this myself.

But a static DC, or one that only varies with monster height, is not enough, IMHO. The level is the key.

For more involved rules (which I'm not sure is worth it), you could base the DC off the reflex defense of the opponent.

Zapp

PS. Even if you make it past the foe, nothing about Acrobatics says you don't provoke an OA. You're still moving past the monster's squares, so you'd still provoke according to me. Otherwise, the skill would be way too powerful, IMHO.

 

[Smeelbo]

I agree, Acrobatics check against DC15 + 1/2 monster level, provokes Opportunity Attacks, and grants Combats Advantage during the move action. Not super difficult, but dangerous.

Smeelbo

 

[Gruns]

You don't need to add 1/2 the monster's level. Simply go with the chart on page 42.
If it's a lvl 8 monster, the DC is 19. If it's a lvl 26 monster, the Hard DC is 31. Etc.

As for DC 15 being too easy for a lvl 1 monster? My Wizard can't do it. My Warlock can't do it. My Cleric can't do it. My nimble Rogue that is skilled with such tasks? He can probably do it more often than not...

Later!
Gruns

 

[Klaus]

You don't need to add 1/2 the monster's level. Simply go with the chart on page 42.
If it's a lvl 8 monster, the DC is 19. If it's a lvl 26 monster, the Hard DC is 31. Etc.

As for DC 15 being too easy for a lvl 1 monster? My Wizard can't do it. My Warlock can't do it. My Cleric can't do it. My nimble Rogue that is skilled with such tasks? He can probably do it more often than not...

Later!
Gruns

Bingo.

Just find the monster level on the DC table, choose Hard (you might choose Medium for a specially low monster, like a Small quadruped), and your movement provokes an OA. Beat the DC by 5 or more and you don't provoke the OA, Miss by 5 or less and you provoke an OA with Combat Advantage, and you fall prone on your landing square. Miss by more than 5 and you provoke the OA with CA, and you don't move, falling prone in your starting square.

 

[keterys]

Another option is to make it against the Reflex of the target.