Adapting the Lycanthrope Template to +0?

[Trench]

I'm starting a police procedural compaign in Ptolus (inspired by a thread here actually...) starting at level 1 and one of the players *REALLY* would like to play a werewolf. And elf rogue lycanthrope to be exact (Yeah, someone read Elfquest growing up...) I initially said no straight out until he mentioned that he'd be willing to kill his character, have him raised and then have lycanthropy affect him afterward (Maybe after being killed by werewolves that work for a corrupt noble house). That got me thinking.

The problem is that the lycanthrope template is totally assinine. (Levels in player and animal HD? Guh?) The threads on ENWorld I read made it seem even more incomprehensible.

So, I downloaded this, which has a lot of excellent ideas and drasticaly simplifies the template. It's a great book, so if you like were-stuff get it.

Basically, no ability bonuses (besides what he'll get as an elf already). The darkvision is obviously a moot point, but the Scent ability is drastically reduced. 5 feet, 10 ft upwind, 0 ft downwind. Does not reveal the exact location, only the presence (so invisibility is still a threat). Tracking with scent only possible with the Track feat. They also gain the Alertness feat while in wereform. Any INT, CHA, many DEX skills (basically any skill that requres patience or concentration) are unusable in wereform without picking up another feat (and having a +3 Will save minimum at that...). Spells and magic items that require a trigger are impossible to use.

A lot of the typical lycanthrope abilities will only be gained by picking feats outlined in the book. Not sure if that would gimp a rogue or not. I haven't DM'ed 3.5 before.

There's also something called "Moon Hit Points" to circumvent the DR issue. Basically, you get temporary hit points while in were-form, but these HP are ignored by magic and silver entirely- taking it right off the main HP total. The book suggested 20 of them, but I may reduce it to 10 or 15.

On top of that, I may also add a 5/vulnerability to silver. Meaning that he'll take an extra five points of damage from any silver weapon. This'll mean a silver bullet could easily kill him straight out for a few levels. And given that the setting is very magic heavy and savvy (The City Watch has been trained to deal with weird stuff, and are issued silver weapons and bullets just in case. The crime families are also just as canny.) this may work.

I'm jettisoning the alignment restrictions, with one potential caveat. I'm thinking on full moon nights, he'll have to make a save of some sort or shift into wereform and or shift temporarilly to CE while in wereform. The likelyhood is that he'll just be chained into the basement of the Brotherhood of Redemption (a group dedicated to redeeming "evil" creatures). On nights when he can't it'll be interesting.

I'm debating the use of the Control Form skill. May be moot anyway, since he may go for natural lycanthrope.

Basically, I think the backstory is he's a natural lycanthrope runt (no ability bonuses, extra silver vulnerability, scent ability reduced by living in a city for so long) that was delivered to the Brotherhood as a cub by some adventurers. The alignment issue is circumvented, while still capturing some of the traditonal werewolf curse flavor.

So what do you think? I'm not overly familliar with adjusting for LA and all that, and yeah I'm kind of a new DM- but this seems like a good compromise to me.

 

[Trench]

Ack. In retrospect, I should have posted this in the Rules Forum. My Apologies. Feel free to delete this mods, as I just posted it over there.

 

[The Truth]

Sounds quite fair. Curse of the Moon does a great job with simplified, playable lycanthropes. The main reason they have a LA is the moon hit points, though the silver vulnerability can balance that. The only concern might be a few overpowered feats in that book . . . if memory serves, celestial / fiendish wereform, the size boosting one, and improved damage reduction are quite powerful.

In my own campaign, I have LA +1 lycanthropes with a few modifications. They get +2 to Str, Dex, or Con and a -2 to Int, get more moon hit points as they level up (+5 / 2 levels), 10 + Con bonus (normal) HP on first level, and 2 lycathrope feats. Maybe a little generous, but it works well.

 

[Klaus]

Go the the WotC website and search for Savage Progressions. In there you'll find a werewolf "class" akin to the monster classes in Savage Species, allowing your player to obtain the template as the game progresses.

One other option is to have him multiclass as barbarian and describe the rage as being a minor change into a wolfish form. During the 3 full moon nights of each month, the character is unavailable for adventuring, being changed into a wolf.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Go the the WotC website and search for Savage Progressions. In there you'll find a werewolf "class" akin to the monster classes in Savage Species, allowing your player to obtain the template as the game progresses.

I'd forgotten this option. I think this is a good way to go.

 

[Zzyzx]

Go the the WotC website and search for Savage Progressions. In there you'll find a werewolf "class" akin to the monster classes in Savage Species, allowing your player to obtain the template as the game progresses.

Werewolf Template Class
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040117a

 

[William drake]

I'm starting a police procedural compaign in Ptolus (inspired by a thread here actually...) starting at level 1 and one of the players *REALLY* would like to play a werewolf. And elf rogue lycanthrope to be exact (Yeah, someone read Elfquest growing up...) I initially said no straight out until he mentioned that he'd be willing to kill his character, have him raised and then have lycanthropy affect him afterward (Maybe after being killed by werewolves that work for a corrupt noble house). That got me thinking.

The problem is that the lycanthrope template is totally assinine. (Levels in player and animal HD? Guh?) The threads on ENWorld I read made it seem even more incomprehensible.

So, I downloaded this, which has a lot of excellent ideas and drasticaly simplifies the template. It's a great book, so if you like were-stuff get it.

Basically, no ability bonuses (besides what he'll get as an elf already). The darkvision is obviously a moot point, but the Scent ability is drastically reduced. 5 feet, 10 ft upwind, 0 ft downwind. Does not reveal the exact location, only the presence (so invisibility is still a threat). Tracking with scent only possible with the Track feat. They also gain the Alertness feat while in wereform. Any INT, CHA, many DEX skills (basically any skill that requres patience or concentration) are unusable in wereform without picking up another feat (and having a +3 Will save minimum at that...). Spells and magic items that require a trigger are impossible to use.

A lot of the typical lycanthrope abilities will only be gained by picking feats outlined in the book. Not sure if that would gimp a rogue or not. I haven't DM'ed 3.5 before.

There's also something called "Moon Hit Points" to circumvent the DR issue. Basically, you get temporary hit points while in were-form, but these HP are ignored by magic and silver entirely- taking it right off the main HP total. The book suggested 20 of them, but I may reduce it to 10 or 15.

On top of that, I may also add a 5/vulnerability to silver. Meaning that he'll take an extra five points of damage from any silver weapon. This'll mean a silver bullet could easily kill him straight out for a few levels. And given that the setting is very magic heavy and savvy (The City Watch has been trained to deal with weird stuff, and are issued silver weapons and bullets just in case. The crime families are also just as canny.) this may work.

I'm jettisoning the alignment restrictions, with one potential caveat. I'm thinking on full moon nights, he'll have to make a save of some sort or shift into wereform and or shift temporarilly to CE while in wereform. The likelyhood is that he'll just be chained into the basement of the Brotherhood of Redemption (a group dedicated to redeeming "evil" creatures). On nights when he can't it'll be interesting.

I'm debating the use of the Control Form skill. May be moot anyway, since he may go for natural lycanthrope.

Basically, I think the backstory is he's a natural lycanthrope runt (no ability bonuses, extra silver vulnerability, scent ability reduced by living in a city for so long) that was delivered to the Brotherhood as a cub by some adventurers. The alignment issue is circumvented, while still capturing some of the traditonal werewolf curse flavor.

So what do you think? I'm not overly familliar with adjusting for LA and all that, and yeah I'm kind of a new DM- but this seems like a good compromise to me.

Well, if I was the player, I wouldn't be a werewolf under these rules. Second, I think something in the elven blood should fight of these type effects, thats why only humans can become werewolves and other such creatures.

He shouldn't have to take feats to do what a werewolf can do at base. You're making him the worst werewolf ever. He can't track by smell, your not making him any stronger or faster in werewolf form, and your barely givein him any hp bonus for being this beastly creature. I'm fine with him not being able to use magic, or seriously concentrate while in wolfform, but wolves hunt, they stalk...they track prey for day waiting in snow drifts, so patients shouldnt be dropped out.

I think you've toned down werewolves way to much, now I can understand saying NO, werewolves are dangerous and awesome, but if you're going to tone it down this much, you might as well tell the player that you will make him a werewolf, but later. Second, it sounds like even though he's a werewolf, he's going to get extra issues: every watchmen armed with silver weapons...come on. (before this, before the player asked if he could play werewolf, were you guards caryrin anything sliver, or now are they just because that is a way to keep him in check) I would say, let him run a much for a little while before you start pulling out the one thing that should be able to kill him.

this might just be me though, I love werewolves, love the WOD version of Rage and agg damage, and how powerful they were...rare, in very small in population numbers, but that sinks up with how deadly they are.

Also,I wouldn't make werewolves evil, they are beasts...so hunting men...doesn't make them evil, its whats natural for them. However, I would say after a while, the players normal AL might change, he might grow to like huntingpeople, he might wish to be more and more beastlike, less concerned with the morel issues of his affliction.

 

[sukael]

Perhaps you could call him an elf, but use the racial traits of the shifter race from the Eberron Campaign Setting?

 

[Tharen the Damned]

As a DM a strongly suggest to use the Curse of the Moon Werewolf template or the savage progression one.
The MM tmplate is just ugly to use.
Did you ever have the situation to spontanously have to make up a hybrid or animal form for a Werewolf NPC? Well, alone the working out for a lo level NPC puts the game to a stop! Imagine what happens if your PC is in a higher level with some items and active spells on him...

I found that CotM template is very easy to use. And it does not take levels the Player can use for his Class Progression.

Second, it sounds like even though he's a werewolf, he's going to get extra issues: every watchmen armed with silver weapons...come on. (before this, before the player asked if he could play werewolf, were you guards caryrin anything sliver, or now are they just because that is a way to keep him in check) I would say, let him run a much for a little while before you start pulling out the one thing that should be able to kill him.

That Setting specific. In Ptolus the City Guards know that they live in a city full of strange Monsters and magic. They are supported by wizards and most assuredly know that silver has a good effect on a some creatures. Did I mention that I love Ptolus?