Adjustment to Orc Paragon

[B4cchus]

Hi folks.

After reading the Orc paragon i find the following incosistancy disturbing:

Mean and foul-tempered, orcs have many characteristics that other humanoid races find offensive or repulsive. Most orcs are savage and cruel. Orc paragons, however, ternper this behavior with keener powers of observation and a slightly more tolerant view of other races and cultures. Orc paragons are much more curious than other members of their race, and many come to see learning as the key to advancing the orc cause.

Emphasis mine.

This statement is contradicted, however, by the 2nd level ability of the Orc Paragon:

A 2nd-level orc paragon learns to channel his hatred of the elven race. He gains a +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls against elves.

Therefore I propose to alter the 2nd level ability. The first thought that comes to mind is to substitute the elf slayer ability with a (fighter?) bonus feat.

Suggestions are welcome!

 

[orsal]

Therefore I propose to alter the 2nd level ability. The first thought that comes to mind is to substitute the elf slayer ability with a (fighter?) bonus feat.

Suggestions are welcome!

I'd rather keep the crunch as is and forget about the sentence you highlighted about tolerance. I don't see why a typical orc paragon would be more tolerant than a typical orc.

 

[hafrogman]

Or it simply means that the Orc paragon is more tolerant of other races because at least they have one thing going for them. Human, dwarf, gnome? At least they aren't elves!

 

[Bront]

I agree, leave it as is. Revising published stuff is never a good idea if you can avoid it (and it's not a simple oversight). Orcs don't consider Elves a race, therefore the statements don't disqualify eachother anyway

 

[B4cchus]

On the 'not change published stuff' i was more or less following the recent rend (horizon walker, poison dc's, soulknife and enworld published stuff: trader, light armor optimization to name some) so i think we already went beyond that point.
On the "orc's don't view elves as a race", "at least they're not elves", etc: that is exactly my point: that would be the standard reaction form a standard orc. I don't see Orc slayer or Goblin slayer up there in the dwarf list... and that paragon description doesn't even mention that they are more tolerant to other races than the regualr dwarf. Why would an orc paragon be more tolerant? That's the whole point about them (why would a wizard cast spells?).

 

[Bront]

LEW published stuff is one thing, and that's easily corectable (And we only discussed LAO). The Horizon Walker was fixing something that we felt was an oversight (You'll notice that most people thought it was already there), and the Soulknife was an issue brought to attention by an article and game play, so we needed a consistant ruling.

The Poison DCs is actualy adding DCs to things that don't at the moment, (Detecting, crafting), not changing the current DCs.

But you just answered your own question, ignore the fluff text of more tollerant (which makes no sense anyway).

 

[Rystil Arden]

I think what the statement meant was more along the lines of the following:

Normal Orc A: "Graarg! Ogres and giants kill elves, but we want kill elves!"

Normal Orc B: "Vraash! We kill ogres and giants and then kill elves! They not take away our elves!"

Orc Paragon: "No, new idea. We work together with ogres and giants and kill even more elves!"

Normal Orcs A and B: "Brilliant! We never think of this alone. That why you is the pair-gown!"

 

[LiquidBlue]

While not an argument based on flavor text, I have long felt that the Orc Paragon was the weakest of all the Paragon classes precisely because of their second level ability. If anything can be considered a dead level it is that level. Really the only reason to go beyond the first level of the Orc Paragon class is if one desperately desires to make a body-building Orc.

Of course ever other Paragon class addes to one ability score or another. Some even allow the option of which ability score to increase.

I am not sure that replacing Elf Slayer with a feat is the right solution, but Elf Slayer seems much to weak. I would almost take the Half-Orc Paragon route and give them 1 extra rage per day. But since the Orc Paragon has a d10 HD compared to the Half-Orc's d8, even that may be too strong. (If not rejected simply for the desire to avoid duplication.) The Half-Orc's Montrous Mein seems about right. (But again is a duplication.)

I think granting the Endurance Feat would be about the right power level, and think fits well with the Orc Paragon concept. (Regular Orcs vs. Uruk-hai for example)

Of course, I do not think that it is a particularly bad idea to simply let sleeping dogs lie. Somethings are just weaker than others, no matter how much we would it to be different.