D&D 5E Advantage vs bonus damage

[Irennan]

I've been wondering about the value of advantage when comparing some class features. Advantage is about the same as a +3 bonus on rolls (a bit more) on average, which in turn grants about +15% damage on average (assuming that you have no more than 85% chance to hit).

How would it compare to the ''Divine Strike'' feature granted by some cleric domains? If we assume a d8 weapon and a +3 STR modifier (no extra attack), then Divine Strike would supposedly blow advantage out of the water at +60% damage. Even more once the cleric has reached 14th level.

Is it the case in actual play?

EDIT: My numbers are off, I guess that the % bonus damage granted by advantage depends on your original chance to it. The question still remains, though. How do the two bonuses compare in actual play?

 

[Dausuul]

Let's see here. At 8th level, with a +3 proficiency bonus and +3 Strength, that's +6 to hit; figure maybe a 13 AC for a typical foe, you hit on a 7 or better, which is a 65% chance of a regular hit (7.5 average damage) and a 5% chance of a crit (12 average damage).

0.65 x 7.5 + 0.05 x 12 = 5.475 damage per attack.

With advantage, it becomes an 81.25% chance of a regular hit and a 9.75% chance of a crit.

0.8125 x 7.5 + 0.0975 x 12 = 7.26375 damage per attack.

So, you are getting about +33% damage from advantage. You are indeed substantially better off with Divine Strike, which gives a shade over +60%, since (I think) you get to double both dice on a crit. However, you'd be even better off with Extra Attack, which gives +100%.

What I'm not sure is when you would ever have to choose between Divine Strike and advantage.

 

[Irennan]

Let's see here. At 8th level, with a +3 proficiency bonus and +3 Strength, that's +6 to hit; figure maybe a 13 AC for a typical foe, you hit on a 7 or better, which is a 65% chance of a regular hit (7.5 average damage) and a 5% chance of a crit (12 average damage).

0.65 x 7.5 + 0.05 x 12 = 5.475 damage per attack.

With advantage, it becomes an 81.25% chance of a regular hit and a 9.75% chance of a crit.

0.8125 x 7.5 + 0.0975 x 12 = 7.26375 damage per attack.

So, you are getting about +33% damage from advantage. You are indeed substantially better off with Divine Strike, which gives a shade over +60%, since (I think) you get to double both dice on a crit. However, you'd be even better off with Extra Attack, which gives +100%.

What I'm not sure is when you would ever have to choose between Divine Strike and advantage.

Thanks for the input. I wanted to compare their effective bonuses for a cleric domain that I'm writing.

 

[Dausuul]

Thanks for the input. I wanted to compare their effective bonuses for a cleric domain that I'm writing.

Ah, that makes sense.

In that case... advantage from a cleric domain feature is actually worth less than 33% bonus damage. When you have no other source of advantage, it gives 33%, but when you do have some other source of advantage (a prone opponent, a Wolf totem barbarian, etc.), it gives 0%. How often that will be the case depends on the campaign, the party, and the DM, but at a very rough guess, I'd value such a class feature at around 20-25% bonus damage overall.

 

[Irennan]

Basically, I want the domain to include a 8th level feature which grants advantage on attack rolls and WIS/CHA saving throws. So I think that the bonus damage granted on average should be significantly lower than that provided by Divine Strike. I tried to give it 1d4 (2d4 at 14) bonus damage and advantage to WIS/CHA saves, but adding bonus damage to attacks doesn't quite fit the concept.

Yes, it's not easy to pin down a precise bonus damage, because of the party composition. I could replace advantage with a +3 or so, but it seems a rather ''un-5e-ish'' thing to do, if you get what I mean. Either way, considering that Divine Strike goes up to 2d8, my feature seems to fall off at later levels. Perhaps I could swap advantage for a +WIS to hit, or something along those lines.

 

[KahlessNestor]

Advantage is equivalent to +5. At least that's what I've seen everywhere, and pretty sure it's in the books somewhere.

 

[Ath-kethin]

Typically, you will do more overall damage by hitting more often than by hurting more when you hit.

 

[delericho]

Advantage is equivalent to +5. At least that's what I've seen everywhere, and pretty sure it's in the books somewhere.

The books use +5 in place of advantage because it's an easy number to remember. Someone ran the numbers a couple of years ago and found that it usually works out to about +4, but that obviously depends on what you need to succeed in the first place.

 

[Irennan]

On average 2d20 drop lowest returns 13.8; d20 returns 10.5. So I think that we can say that there is about +3.3 gap between the two.

 

[mellored]

The more damage you do, the more advantage is worth. (and it's closer to +4.5).
The better chance you have to hit, the more damage is worth (i assume you want +1d6 damage).


So assuming you do 10 damage with 60% chance to ht.

baseline = 6 damage
Advantage = 8.4 damage
+1d6 = 8.1 damage

Pretty close either way.